Question for Jamil or Dr Scott (and others)

[Fuzzy]

I recently made a 5 gallon partial mash of Dortmunder Export Pilsner, from a Beers Captured Recipe. Here is the recipe I used:

1.25 lbs Muntons DME
3.5 lbs Bierkeller LME
1.25 lbs Durst Munich malt
1.25 lbs Durst Pilsner malt
.25 lbs Durst crystal light
.75 oz. Norther Brewer hops (60 min)
Irish Moss
WYeast 2007 Pilsen yeast with 2 liter starter

I mashed the grains in 150 degree water for 90 minutes. Added the DME at the start of the boil and the LME at last 15 minutes.

SG: 1.050
FG: 1.012
Primary ferment for 21 days at 50 degrees
2 day diacetyl rest
Secondary for 20 days at 50 degrees
Lager for 35 days at 36 degrees.


Now that you have the background, here is my question. While the beer came out excellent, it is not quite what I was looking for. It was not the typical German pilsner I was expecting, it seems to need more body, more mouthfeel. Would increasing the amount of crystal or adding carapils help? Maybe boosting it up to .5 lb or a pound?

I did notice that the flavor really comes out best when the beer is around room temp rather than cold at 36 degrees. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Fuzz

[jamilz]

It is really hard to give an exact answer without tasting the beer.

The problem with boosting crystal type grains is that it changes the flavor too.

Instead, I'd try a higher mash temp first. Target 160F and see if that helps enough.

You might also try different malt extracts, as some are more ferementable than others.

With the terminal gravity at 1.012, it shouldn't be too thin, so again it is hard to tell what you're picking up without tasting it myself.

Hope that helps.

[Fuzzy]

ok, I'm a little new to this all grain stuff. If I want a beer with a full body, what temp should I mash at? 160?

what about medium body and light body?

[jamilz]

Any temp from 145F to 162F. The warmer, the more dextrins are formed and the more body the beer will have.

Normally, for all grain, you'd target in the 150s. Since you're doing mini-mash and most of your sugars are from extract, I'd say push the temp for more dextrins.

[Fuzzy]

Thanks Jamil for you help. This weekend I am attempting my second all grain batch. I don't have the equipment for a full boil but I do have two 4 gallon pots and I just split the wort collected and do the two boils. I split the hops equally between the two and then siphon at the end into the fermenter to bring both batches together. I am doing a Pilsner Urquell style. The recipe is:

9 lbs Pilsner malt
.5 lb Weyerman Carahell
2 oz. of Munich malt
1.5 oz. Saaz (90 min)
1.25 oz. Saaz (15 min)
1 oz. Saaz (3 min)
Wyeast 2278 Czech Pilsner yeast

Mash Procedure:
protein rest at 122 for 20 min
saccharification at 156 for 60 min
mash out at 168 for 10 min


How does this recipe sound for a full body Pilsner?

[Speyedr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that Pilsner malt should be modified enough where you do not need a protein rest at all. The protein rest will actually thin out the beer, taking the Body in the wrong direction.

From Palmer's How To Brew Wesite:
"The typical Protein Rest at 120 - 130°F is used to break up proteins which might otherwise cause chill haze and can improve the head retention. This rest should only be used when using moderately-modified malts, or when using fully modified malts with a large proportion (>25%) of unmalted grain, e.g. flaked barley, wheat, rye, or oatmeal. Using this rest in a mash consisting mainly of fully modified malts would break up the proteins responsible for body and head retention and result in a thin, watery beer."

I have been using the Papazian Rest at 133f or so for several beers now and it works great. Good head, no body problems (sounds like my Wife.) I don't want to step on any holy toes here, but I recommend you either raise the temp of your protein mash or skip it altogether.

Also, your Sacch. rest looks a bit high for a Pils in my humble opinion. I think what Jamil was saying is that in your PARTIAL Mash, you could mash the grains at a higher temp to offset for the thinner body, which may have been coming from your extract. In an all-grain Pils recipe though I'd stay below 154f, and if it were me (and it's NOT) I'd go about 152f.

All of this said it's your beer and your brew day, and this may come out just fine the way you have it.

Just my 1.5 million cents...

[jamilz]

Right, if you're doing all grain you should target 150 to 154F for your mash.

I don't think you need the protein rest with modern malt. Also, that would be part of the problem with thin beer, as you bring the temp up from 122F most everything is converted by the time you reach 156F.

[JP]

But since it is a min mash (partial) would the mash temps really make that much of a difference, or should he do that in conjucntion with adding some carafoam or carapils? My vote is to add some carafoam, since you only have like 3 pounds of grain.