Food for thought.....using your "reverse osmosis" system

Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:29 am

a few of you use a domestic version of a reverse osmosis water system to "strip out" all the things in the water. These systems work by having an cation exchanger which binds cations, (positively charged ions) and a anion exchanger which binds anions (negatively charged ions).

The systems that you buy for household use are quite small. typically they consist of three components. A carbon filter to remove organic material, then the cation and anion exchangers.

If in fact these systems were to bind 100% of intended ions, if you were to hook them up to straight tap water and run them, they would bind....

if you tap water was:
Ca+ 25ppm, Mg+ 10ppm, sodium+ 50ppm (the cations, with 85ppm in total)
Cl- 10ppm, SO4- 50ppm, HCO3- 100ppm (the anions, with 160ppm in total)

.....that means for each liter to pass the system, 85 mg of cation would bind to the cation exchanger, and 160mg of anion would bind to your anion exchanger. Now, if you were to make a 5 gallon batch of all-grain beer, you'd need about 9 gallons of water or so. 9 gallons of water passing an RO system would, if 100% effective, absorb 2.9 grams of cation and 5.4 grams of anion. And thats only looking at the brewing salts of interest. Your water will have more than that.

Basically my point here is that you shouldn't count on your RO system to work if you hook it straight up to tap water. I am sure that it will work for the first gallon or so with decreasing efficiency over time.

I work in a lab. We have an RO system that has three hugh 3 foot canisters. Also, our system is fed with water that has been previously distilled. After 100 liters, our system will have enough calcium in it to screw up some experiments that we run. I work with some professors who teach a class in instrumentation. One of the labs that they do is evaluating the distillation and RO systems in our department by using atomic absorbance (a highly sensitive way of measuring metals such as calcium). Even I was shocked to see how shitty our water system is considering how much money we pay for it.

:jnj
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Re: Food for thought.....using your "reverse osmosis" system

Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:43 am

Great topic... I was actually thinking about this recently - do RO systems actually remove all the stuff we think they do? I really need to send some samples over to Ward. My small RO system is at the end of the line after a regular soft water ION exchanger and some other special "whole house" water purifier. I have been assuming that most everything is stripped out at that point. The only time that I use it exclusively is for some of the lighter ales and lagers. For some of the middle SRM beers, I use 50-50 RO to filtered tap, and for the dark stuff it's just straight filtered tap.

I'm just too lazy to send out those samples.... maybe one day.


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Re: Food for thought.....using your "reverse osmosis" system

Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:53 pm

I too have been thinking about this. I plan to get off my lazy ass and send a sample of my RO water and my tap water to the folks at http://www.wardlab.com for analysis.

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Re: Food for thought.....using your "reverse osmosis" system

Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:17 pm

It just depends on what kind of system you have. I have a 5 stage RO-DI system. Usually the 1st stage of any RO system is a pre-filter block. The 2nd stage is usually the RO membrane which works by pressure and a semi-permeable membrane. The 3rd stage is usually a carbon block which is where most of the ionic processes happen. In DI systems you have 2 more stages of DI resin that use Ionic charges to attract impurities.
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Re: Food for thought.....using your "reverse osmosis" system

Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:04 pm

boobookittyfuk wrote:a few of you use a domestic version of a reverse osmosis water system to "strip out" all the things in the water. These systems work by having an cation exchanger which binds cations, (positively charged ions) and a anion exchanger which binds anions (negatively charged ions).


That's a De-Ionizer, not reverse osmosis. And yes, were one to use it on tap water it would quickly exhaust the resins. An RO system forces the water through a differentially permeable membrane. When it is no longer effective, no water makes it through the membrane. For a greater degree of purity the output of the RO can be passed through de-ionizing resins.
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Re: Food for thought.....using your "reverse osmosis" system

Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:05 pm

Stomapod beat me to it!
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Re: Food for thought.....using your "reverse osmosis" system

Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:03 am

But, where do all the salts go?

For that 9 gallons to pass the system, 8.3 grams of salt are removed. 8.3 grams of salt is a considerable pile of matter. Ever tried doing an eight ball in one night? Thats only 3.5 grams of coke, and trust me, its not easy!

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Re: Food for thought.....using your "reverse osmosis" system

Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:21 am

boobookittyfuk wrote:But, where do all the salts go?


Ours has an automatic back flush.
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