Re: Resources for going pro?

Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:42 pm

ChrisKennedy wrote:
There is no way financing is easier than the paper work. Getting your paper work right is an inevitability. Getting the financing together is not.

Have you seen the paperwork requirements for a brewery?

In any event, the basic model business plan will cover the main points and provide direction. Your scope and target customer base will dicate equipment needs, distribution style, packaging, and marketing.

Here's a link to points of a standard business plan from the SBA.

http://www.sba.gov/category/navigation- ... od-busines

Who are you, what are you selling, how are you going to sell it. Those are the questions you must answer in your plan.
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Adam
 
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Re: Resources for going pro?

Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:54 pm

Adam wrote:
ChrisKennedy wrote:
There is no way financing is easier than the paper work. Getting your paper work right is an inevitability. Getting the financing together is not.

Have you seen the paperwork requirements for a brewery?


Sorry, I have nothing to add other than LOL
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Re: Resources for going pro?

Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:38 pm

I've opened a few businesses and never had a problem with financing. Just speaking from experience.
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Adam
 
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Re: Resources for going pro?

Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:29 pm

I've done some more thinking on this. A coworker has been talking to be about starting a nanobrewery.

pfooti wrote:At first, I figured that there was absolutely no way I could go pro without going Huge.

Beer is a volume industry. It's like a gas station. They make 3 cents per gallon, but don't make money on the one customer filling their tank. They make their money on 100,000+ customers a week. Basic economies of scale come into play. You will have to figure out whether you will sell volume and make little profit per sale making money over time or sell a lower volume at a higher price, make more per sale but less sales. In my experience (I've started and operated 5 businesses) it's easier to lower your price than raise it. One of the things I hate the most about being in business is setting prices.

I did some math on the situation and preliminary numbers indicate that a 1-10 hL system would yield enough income to keep me in business and making enough money to live on, given certain preconditions- one being actually selling the beer and two being the still-murky regulatory world of brewing. I could probably run such a system by myself indefinitely, possibly hiring help to run the tasting room if business picks up.

One of the best formulas is (revenue-COGS)/profit margin = overhead to break even. Goods are sold far less efficiently than they are made. You make money on COGS, not price. You and your competitor charge $3/pint and sell the same volume. Your competition's cost per pint is $0.75. Your company's cost is $0.60 per pint. Who's making more money? Anytime you can get a discount, take it. Bill accurately, get paid on time, pay your bills on time to get the discounts. Get your suppliers to sign you on 2/10N30 terms. Get that discount every time.

I would start off without employees, personally. No WC, no headaches with employees. You have enough to worry about as a startup, you don't need employees complicating the situation. That's another level of management that can be avoided.

I'd done some investigation into this already as part of my first commercial business plan (a subscription model). Living in California makes things somewhat easier, you can self-distribute.

I wish we could self-distribute here.

I'm a pretty smart person and good at learning from books and online resources; I'm not going to jump into this blind. I really can't as the startup costs (while relatively low for a small business) are large enough to require financing, and banks like business plans.

Every business should have a business plan, not just those seeking financing from external sources. Writing a plan can guide you along the way and allow you to find things that you didn't address. The business will cost only as much as you make it cost.

1) Business planning. I'll need to figure out predictions for the actual cost of brewing (right now, I externalize things like water and garbage as they're not really noticeable on the 5 gal scale and they're also part of my regular residential rent) and the likely price points for the products. If I largely self-distribute through a combined storefront / subscription system, I can make more per liter of beer, at the price of actually having to deal with transactions.

That's the largest part of your business plan. You want to make beer and sell it for profit. How are you going to do that? Wholesale only, tap room, retail for off premises consumption only, etc.

2) Regulatory planning. I've talked to some people at the ABC here in CA about this and have a handle on how to start, but I'm still dealing with zoning and health regulations. In particular, I think a tasting room that doubles as a pub (but only serves my beer, which I believe makes it easier to get a permit for) could be a decent anchor for the brewery. No food service planned (don't want to deal with that)- just beer on tap, cases to purchase, and probably a returnable growler filling service. That would be the anchor for the outreach and sales- the rest of sales would be subscriptions, but operating a bar is tricky.

Generally for simplicity wholesale only is the way to go. For a brewery with retail up front, you walk into health codes with restrooms, customer access, etc. Quite possibly you might be able to qualify as a brewpub if you allow food from outside vendors, but not offer food service yourself. In addition to growler filling, perhaps a corny filling service too.

3) Location planning. I'm in the SF Bay (currently living in SF), and cannot move too far. But I could go to Oakland or somewhere else nearby to save on rent. On the other hand, I'm looking to market my product to yuppies (or whatever they're called now), since they're the ones with the money. Anyone know any good resources for finding commercial rental properties in that region? Craigslist isn't all that helpful.

Demographics definitely play a role in marketing and are very tricky. My experience has led me to find out just because there is money in the area, doesn't mean they like to spend it. Even the wealthy people are cheapskates.

For commercial property, I'd look at your local online realtor websites. Here they list everything online that's available. For great deals, go directly to the banks and ask for the REO listings (real estate owned). These are foreclosed properties owned by the banks on defaulted mortgages. Usually only available to real estate investors, but if they are sitting on something for a few years they will deal buyer direct (use their financing as leverage). All REOs are assets of the bank that want it off the book, since it's a liability.
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Adam
 
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Re: Resources for going pro?

Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:15 pm

Wow, there's some really good responses in this thread, and I appreciate all the ideas and feedback.

The general plan I'm looking at is something along these lines: CA is a self-distribute state, so I can sell directly to consumers without having to deal with distributers, which would make the entire idea fail. San Francisco is also a pretty hefty foodie area, and there's a surprising number of not-quite-hipsters around. I say not-quite, because they've got a lot of hipster-esque attributes, but they're also a lot cooler than the hipsters I knew on the east coast. Meaning: there's possibly a place for a niche brewer who makes high-quality beer on rotation, clever brews with seasonal ingredients, and operates on a more-or-less subscription model. Plenty of people subscribe to wineries, including a fair number of people who really cannot afford to do so.

At a roughly 5 hL scale with a few storage tanks, my reading of the brewing literature indicates that it is reasonable to run this level of business either solo or with a partner. If you can retail your product for $5-10 / liter, between subscriptions, case sales, and $5/pint pours in the "tasting pub", there looks to be enough revenue to support a 1-2 person brewery. Brewing seems very capital intensive, and very rewarding to larger-scale operations (with higher revenue, you can get an automated bottling line, for example, instead of the much slower 2-4 bottle fillers that require a lot of operator time). That's assuming, of course, it's possible to acquire space and permits to operate a bare-bones tasting pub a few nights a week and sell beer from the brewery the rest of the week.

Of course, at this point everything is super-hypothetical. I've got a job that's pretty decent and is definitely lasting for a while. It's a time-bomb job, and I know I'll not be able to keep it longer than three years, so I'm mostly kicking around ideas for what I want to be when I grow up. As if I'll ever grow up.

There's also clearly the biggest hurdle: product. I can run the numbers and interview people (and if I'm working on a real business plan, I can write off trips to the bar as market research, right?) all day, but if I can't consistently brew quality beer then it's all an exercise in futility. I feel like my base recipes are pretty solid and I've gotten good at consistently repeating (and planning on modifications that seem to go as planned) at the 5 gallon level. That's probably worlds different from the 5 hL level, and I'm probably deluded in thinking I could scale to that level easily.

What I should probably do is seek out an internship (paid or unpaid) during the summer at a brewery or brewpub nearby. I've got summers off (yay, teaching) already. That'd be a pretty big first step, and probably makes sense regardless. Easier to establish whether or not I'm cut out for making this hobby a vocation if I try it on someone else's system first.
pfooti
 
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Re: Resources for going pro?

Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:27 pm

And keep your units of measure as Imperial. This is America. :mrgreen:
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If you take what I post here literally, you're retarded. I'm here to fuck around, have a good time, and learn about beer. You mean nothing to me and I mean nothing to you.
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Re: Resources for going pro?

Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:40 pm

Barkeep! Poureth me a 50 centiliter draught of thy finest stout!
pfooti
 
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Re: Resources for going pro?

Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:02 am

Bokonon wrote:
Adam wrote:
ChrisKennedy wrote:
There is no way financing is easier than the paper work. Getting your paper work right is an inevitability. Getting the financing together is not.

Have you seen the paperwork requirements for a brewery?


Sorry, I have nothing to add other than LOL



Double LOL.

Yeah Chris, what could you possibly know about opening a brewery? *cough*Be a Heretic*cough*
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Justin wrote: "Just blow."
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