Dry yeast

[Jbug]

Should I use the same steps for preparing a starter with dry yeast just the same as with liquid? Would I need to rehydrate before pitching into the starter?
Thanks
Josh

[spiderwrangler]

Depending on what dry yeast you are doing, it may be cheaper to just buy multiple packets and pitch them. If your yeast is cheaper than the cost of the malt you'd use to make the starter, just buy more. If you are using the Safale products, it may be cost effective.

Yes, it is best to rehydrate, boil some water let it cool and put it in your flask or jar, sprinkle yeast in and let it sit for 15 min or so with foil on top. During this time, the yeast floating on top will start taking in water and rehydrating and fall to the bottom. When you are ready to pitch, give it a swirl to get everything suspended and pitch it.

[Jbug]

Should I feed them? Or is this a process that is done a few hours before the brew day starts and would really matter?
Yeah I'm not real familiar with with what brands my LHBS carry... I just found out about them a week ago and I plan on making the hour long journey out there to see what it's all about...
I found it funny when I called I asked if they carried wyeast or white labs and the guy told me that liquid yeast wasn't popular around here!
So hell I guess I'll give the dry stuff a try...
Thanks for the help
Josh

[Brew Swillis]

I've used the Safale S-04 several times and I believe I've asked the same question. From what I understand you technically could do a starter with a dry yeast, but it will force the yeast cells to metabolize some of their cellular reserves and actually leave them in 'less healthy/weaker' state than if you just rehydrated them normally and pitched. IF I understood the feedback I Was given properly. IF you are doing a 'normal' gravity batch (under 1.060 or so) just take a microwave glass or bowl (I use a pyrex measureing cup) and nuke it til you get a simmer or boil and then let it cool to under 90 degrees. I usually wrap it in saran wrap immediately and throw it in the fridge for a while. Do all this first thing before you start anything else on your brew day. Once it cools down enough that you wont zorch the yeast (Ive done this accidentally and it smells like rancid bongwater), then just pitch the dry yeast packet into the cooled down water and let it rehydrate for a while. I try to time this all so that the water is cooled and ready to recieve the dry yeast by the time I am ready to start my boil.

Now to foul all that up.....
I recently a bottled a Strong Scotch Ale that I fermented using Safale S-04 and a starting gravity of 1.095. I wasn't expecting the yeast to do a whole lot, maybe 65% attenuation, but I wanted it to gobble as much as it could, so I did a mini starter of maybe a table spoon of DME in 2 cups of water and then rehydrated the yeast in that. I figured if it didnt work, it wouldnt be much worse off than if I didnt do the mini 'starter'. I pitched it then after it had started to foam up a bit. Long story short is that it then attenuated the whole shbang down to 1.022 from 1.095 in just a couple of weeks, most of that was done in about 4 days.....

I just thought I'd put all that out there, I hope it helps somehow

[animaldoc]

I find it hard to believe the argument that if you make a proper starter that your yeast is less healthy than the yeast in the dormant/dry state. So I started this reply ready to list the reasons ...... activating metabolism, getting reproduction going so that you have new young cells and an increased cell count, etc ....

but as I was thinking it through, it starts to make some sense. I think the key is "proper" starter vs "starter". If you just pitch dry yeast into starter wort, it's not much different than sprinkling on top of a batch of your beer wort - you'll immediately kill half your yeast. And think about how many cells you are actually adding from a pack of dry yeast - 2-3 times that of a WL vial or Wyeast Activator? In order to get effective reproduction, you would therefore need a starter volume 2 to 3 times that of what we might be doing normally for a given type of liquid yeast.

In the end, I think it boils down to more "what's the point?" practicality -- it's much simpler to rehydrate the yeast than make starter wort, you can add go ferm to improve viability and activity even further, and by doing so you accomplish the same thing as making a starter (killing half the yeast then rejuvenating the other half so they start reproducing); and from a cost-benefit ratio, dry yeast is inexpensive, large starter worts cost money, time involved in making starters has value ......

[brewinhard]

Dry yeast does NOT need a starter. To use dry yeast correctly, one should rehydrate it to help make the cell walls more pliable to produce sterols that are used to build more cells during budding/reproduction. Simply boil 1 cup of water for 5 minutes. Put a lid on the pan with 2 minutes to go, to sanitize the lid. Let the water cool with lid on, until around 90-100 degrees or so. Sanitize your packet and scisssors, cut the packet open and gently sprinkle the yeast into the cooled water. Put the lid back on and DON'T swirl it yet. Let is sit for 15 min. After 15 min., swirl the yeast in the pan, then pour into your aerated wort. DONE.....It does not need to rehydrate any longer than 15-20 min.

[Jbug]

Thanks for the replies fellas... I made the trip out to my local shop and I started to ask about starters and before I got starter out of mouth he said no! Don't do it!...
It was my first time out there and I didn't know what to expect to see but I was really impressed on how much he could shove into his storage building turned brewshop! I sat and talked beer for a little while and got to enjoy one of his APA's he had on draft... Glad I found him out in the middle of nowhere! Again thanks for the info!

By the way I change my bong water out every other day

[Brew Swillis]

In the end, I think it boils down to more "what's the point?" practicality -- it's much simpler to rehydrate the yeast than make starter wort, you can add go ferm to improve viability and activity even further, and by doing so you accomplish the same thing as making a starter (killing half the yeast then rejuvenating the other half so they start reproducing); and from a cost-benefit ratio, dry yeast is inexpensive, large starter worts cost money, time involved in making starters has value ......

this was pretty much the bottom line from the answers that I got as well....