First Round of 2010 NHC

[Crackin]

I got a 41 for an oat stout. Top score in category - 41. Didn't place. Question: What does mini-BOS mean? How does that work. I understand they score the beers, then what? Do they choose beers for a mini-BOS and then compare them all side by side to decide 1st, 2nd, and 3rd?

[faithinchaos]

when there are too many beers in a category for 1 set of judges, they split it into flights with multiple sets of judges. each flight gets its top three and those are rejudged in a mini-bos where gold, silver and bronze are decided.

[SCWells72]

when there are too many beers in a category for 1 set of judges, they split it into flights with multiple sets of judges. each flight gets its top three and those are rejudged in a mini-bos where gold, silver and bronze are decided.

And importantly, they're decided in a more subjective manner rather than taking into account the scores from the first round of judging...basically taste them and call out 1, 2, 3.

Evidently this is because different judges from different tables may have calibrated differently so that a 35 from conservative judges at one table may be an objectively better beer than one that scored a 43 at another table where the judges tend to score higher.

Why they don't take the mini-BoS entries and re-judge them objectively (as objective as judging can be, of course) again, I don't know, but I've had a few of these where my/our beer scored highest in the category but didn't advance. On the flip side, I've advanced when I didn't score near the top scores either, so win some, lose some!

[JohnF]

Why they don't take the mini-BoS entries and re-judge them objectively (as objective as judging can be, of course) again, I don't know, but I've had a few of these where my/our beer scored highest in the category but didn't advance. On the flip side, I've advanced when I didn't score near the top scores either, so win some, lose some!

It would take too much time. You are basically talking about doubling the number of flights in the competition which means that the judging pool would contain half as many qualified judges (I am assuming nobody is willing to spend twice as much time and working twice as fast is impossible, judging is already exhausting) among other consequences.

It is an imperfect system but when you look at how much brewers are willing to pay to enter a competition and how many brewers like to participate by entering vs how many like to participate by judging, that's what you get. At the end of the day you hopefully get 2+ good scoresheets and the beers ranked 1-2-3 by the consensus of judges who among them tasted every beer in the category.

[ipaisay2.0]

scoresheets came today (Northeast)

hard luck loser - a 41 point Russian Imperial Stout, top score in the category was a 47 tho, so it's understandable

that 47 was a foreign export stout brewed by IPAisay which did NOT make it to the second round (probably because he put his local club and not the BN)! He has now scored the highest in stout two years in a row without making it to the second round!!!!

Sounds like a pretty big difference in the judges opinions, I'd be freakin' pissed!

Well, Not really. It happens. Best of luck to the Northeast to win some medals in stout this year! i'll be listening for that result as well as listening for English Brown and Fruit Beers.

[crupp]

I really don't want to open this can here, so I am going to try to tread lightly, but will probably end up getting my ass kicked...

As a competition organizer I take a lot of shit for mini best of shows. The bottom line is that they’re a “necessary evil.” To be completely honest, I really don’t think that they’re that bad…I just don’t think that people truly understand the process. Many people (and I’m not picking on anyone here, nor am I saying they don’t have a decent gripe) are blinded by scores. While a good tool for the individual flights, and a decent gauge for the brewer, scores truly are irrelevant.

It would be great if we could rejudge the beers at the mini-BOS. I see three problems:

1) You would either need to submit three bottles for a competition (and I know how much people love doing that) or
2) your beer will be warmer, and flatter; so it may actually do worse. Most would end up getting two sets of score sheets for the same entry and would rant and rave about the fact that the second set of judges didn’t know what the hell they were doing.
3) From a competition organizing point of view, this could take a lot of time. I’m not suggesting that we don’t move that way, but you could add over an hour to each large flight on already long day of judging.

I truly think that the best way to put people’s minds at ease about mini-BOS situations is to ask them the following scenario:

You are one of three sets of judges judging porter. You score what you feel is the best porter in your set of beers a 42. That beer gets moved on to the mini-BOS where you sit with two other judges from the other sets to rank 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in porter. You start to evaluate the mini-BOS beers and you realize that your porter doesn’t even come close to the other porters on the table brought forward by the other sets of judges. As a matter of fact, it’s not even in the top five. You realize that the beer isn’t going to place. That’s OK…it was still the best porter in your set of beers.

As Mini-BOS judges you have picked the top three beers…period (full stop for my British friends). At this point, does it really matter that your best beer was a 42 and didn’t place? Does it really matter if the beer that takes 1st was a 38? The flight is done. Do you really need to consider anything else? What’s the point in adjusting the scores? Let the brewer feel good that a set of judges thought their beer was worth a 42. If it was a smaller competition, they may have won. Once 1st, 2nd, and 3rd have been assigned, the scores are completely irrelevant.

I’m sorry for the rant….I’m just getting a bit tired of listening to people complain about a process they have never been involved in. I think the best way to educate people about mini-BOS rounds is to get them to competitions. I honestly believe that once you see it happen and start to understand that once feedback is provided for the entrant, all they are doing is picking the top three beers.

I’m ready for my hate mail…

[TastyMcD]

Since the NHC first round is a single bottle competition, mini-BOS is in part a test of how well the second half bottle of your beer survives being capped on O2 for sometimes up to 2 hours. My 45 point APA and 40 point American Brown both advanced to mini-BOS but neither placed. Both beers had extreme hop aroma and I'm wondering if that doesn't turn into some off aroma or flavor during the beer abuse phase of the judging.

For the presumptive goal of finding the best three beers to advance, I'd like the first round to be two bottles. Not just to solve this recapping problem but to also give the regions the option of doing the mini-BOS on another day when palates are fresh and so is the beer.

Tasty

[Azimuth]

Just brainstorming here, but it seems to make more sense to do a mini BOS to advance three beers from each flight and then use the scoring system to place the finalists. Of course the downside would be that you will not receive a score sheet unless you advance from your flight into the final round, which would not bother me. I have never judged so there may be something else I am overlooking.
Peace!