Drinkin' and Thinkin'...

[Speyedr]

So I just listened to the POPE on the "Jamil Show" today.. GREAT SHOW of course! I am doing a "Patriot Pale Ale" next weekend (after the holiday) so it was really helpful. I deleted my Victory malt in the beginning of the show and then added it back in a bit later, once it was mentioned I have to say I LOVE this network for the info, and I HATE this network for the second guessing I do BECAUSE of the info...

Anyway, I am thinking about the most sensitive topic in the world... the BREWING world that is... to secondary or not to secondary... I have to say I found it quite interesting to hear that the POPE... the seer of seers.... the MAN... the Ninka-whatsit most winningest hoembrewer of them all (I told you I was drinking) does NOT transfer his beer to a secondary. I am shocked AND in awe (Dubbya would be proud.)

I secondary. I have 5 secondaries just for the purpose, and to think of NOT doing it makes me think of the sucker who might BUY my secondaries. I understand his point, and if you keg like I do it seems almost obvious, and I feel stupid for not thinking of it. there are two concerns I have though:

1 - I do a MANUAL whirlpool, not a Jamil whirlpool, and so I get some trub in my primaries. For a quick Ale I don't see a problem but for high gravity or a lager I have some reservations. As the trub breaks down you can get some off flavors from it.

2 - Lagers - fermentation can last more than the 10 days Jamil mentioned for a lager, and for an Oktoberfest or higher gravity lager it can last weeks. My oktoberfest is STILL producing CO2 and it's been in the freezer for about 4 weeks now. On the show Jamil said to leave it on the yeast 'cause you want the yeast to finish it's job. Well for a lager, that can be a while.

I love the idea of not transferring to secondary and having more than 5 gallons lagering at a time in my chest freezer. I am just wondering what other factors play into this. What else needs to be addressed in the process in order to allow one to do a primary ferment only?

Thoughts?

Rob

[linuxelf]

I secondary most beers for a couple of reasons. For one, I only have 1 6.5 gal carboy, and two 5 gal. I really don't like doing primary fermentation in 5 gallon carboys, so if I am going to have two batches going at once, I have to transfer the first one out of the 6.5.

Also, I like to dryhop, and I like to rack ontop of my hops....

But mostly, it's force of habit. It's what I have always done...

[Lufah]

I do and don't. Most of my ales 1.060 and under just go primary to keg. Everything else goes into a secondary. Actually a lot of stuff ends up in secondary because I'm lazy and after a month or so I need to get it off the trub.

Travis

[Bugeater]

Lufah, you must have been spying on me again! You copied my technique!
I, too, am a lazy ass brewer so I often don't bother to secondary unless I plan to bottle or need to age for a long time. Still have that barleywine sitting in secondary for 14 months now that I have been meaning to bottle for the last 6 months.

Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company

[Big Chooch]

I think the fact that Jamil doesn't use a secondary shows that using one isn't necessary. When I first started getting interested in improving my beer, I read a few books that touted the graces of the secondary and even tritary fermentation, arguing that it would make an appreciable difference in the quality of your brew. Jamil (and many others) continually prove that the case just isn’t true. Great beers have been made either way. And if you're taking pride in work and attention to detail, secondary fermenters aren't going to make an appreciable positive difference. As a matter of fact, secondary fermenters will probably negatively impact the beer in this case. I noticed that the argument against using plastic primaries is O2 transfer, but many of those same people siphon to a secondary where as a much greater rate of oxygen exposure is probably happening.

Now, if your like me, and tend to get a little sloppy, lazy, or just plain accident prone. Secondary fermenting will likely have a greater impact (provided you’re not lazy with sanitation).

Just my two cents.

[Chris Vejnovich]

I don't secondary either. And I haven't been using secondary for quite some time. It just made me feel good that the Pope ok'd the practice. Now I can go about my life in peace and solitude.

[BrewBum]

I secondary but it is in the keg as it is carbing or waiting for a spot in my fridge.

[Speyedr]

I secondary but it is in the keg as it is carbing or waiting for a spot in my fridge.

Ok, so how long in Primary before you move to the keg? How long do you Secondary in the keg before you tap it? Also, if the yeast is still flocculating in the keg, you will have more yeast than usual when you finally tap it. So, how long before it runs clear?

I don'tmean to interrogate, but I want to understand clearly before I make a decision on whether or not to change my procedure. I'd LOVE to skip the secondary and go right to the keg.

I usually secondary Ales after the krausen has fallen back into the beer. Then I leave it in secondary for 3 weeks of "conditioning" before bottling/kegging. By that time most of the yeast has flocculated and my beer is fairly clear. It only takes a few glasses to run crystal clear from the tap.