bottle conditioning - trouble with sediments

[monstersandpie]

my first two all grain beers have gone well, but i'm having a trouble keeping the yeast / sediment at the bottom of the bottle from getting stirred up. at first i thought i was dealing with a chill haze problem. now i've realized that the film on the bottom of the bottle is getting disturbed really easily when i pour - much easier than any other bottle conditioned beers i've had.
is there anything i can do for this? i'm pouring the beer out really easily. these beers have been conditioning for four weeks in one case, and two weeks in the other. is it possible that i'm bottling too late and not getting enough yeast into the bottles to stick things to the bottom? fermentation is only taking about four days, but i have been conditioning for two weeks on average. would cold conditioning the bottles for an extended period of time help stick things down?
i realize this is a damn long winded description of a pretty basic homebrewing issue, but my concern is that if i start entering beers in competition, the judges won't be nearly as careful pouring the beers as i am, and they'll go from looking crystal clear to chill haze cloudy.
thanks all

[DannyW]

cold conditioning for several weeks will give chill haze a chance to form and drop out, so you will get clearer beer in your glass if that is the current source of your haze.

If the haze is from yeast, and the beer in the bottle is clear, then you might want to reexamine your pouring procedure. There should be *no* glugging, and leave the last 1/2oz or so in the bottle. The whole bottle should be poured out in one go, don't return the bottle to upright and expect to pour clear again. If the beer is overcarbonated you may not be able to get a clear beer, as the Co2 will raise the yeast off the bottom.

Sorry if you know all that already, just trying to cover the bases in case something obvious has gone by.

[monstersandpie]

The whole bottle should be poured out in one go, don't return the bottle to upright and expect to pour clear again. If the beer is overcarbonated you may not be able to get a clear beer, as the Co2 will raise the yeast off the bottom.

Sorry if you know all that already, just trying to cover the bases in case something obvious has gone by.

Yeah, this is along the lines of what I'm experiencing. I poured one last night as smoothly as possible and put the bottle down when I had to stop for the foam to reduce. Crystal clear beer. The rest of the bottle of course was cloudy. It seems like store bought bottle conditioned beers - like Deschutes Black Butte Porter - have more 'stick' factor and are easier to pour without stirring things up.

Is there anything homebrewers can do to help things stay in the bottom of the bottle? I'm particularly curious how this effects people's scores in competition - whether the judges judge the appearance from the first pour, or you wind up getting different scores from different judges, depending on who got which portion fo the beer.

And thanks for your tone DannyW. I half expected to get back 'Yeah Idiot!! There's stuff in the bottom - sheesh!!' or something...

But we all know the BN Army's cooler than that...

[DannyW]

Yeah, this is along the lines of what I'm experiencing. I poured one last night as smoothly as possible and put the bottle down when I had to stop for the foam to reduce. Crystal clear beer. The rest of the bottle of course was cloudy. It seems like store bought bottle conditioned beers - like Deschutes Black Butte Porter - have more 'stick' factor and are easier to pour without stirring things up.

Some yeasts are more sticky than others. WLP002 is notoriously so, for instance. If it continues to be a problem, maybe try a different yeast?

As for pouring, tip the glass while you pour down the side of the glass. Use a bigger glass. Have a second glass on hand and pour the rest in the 2nd glass without tipping the bottle upright between the two. Cut your priming sugar if the beer is overcarbonated.

Is there anything homebrewers can do to help things stay in the bottom of the bottle? I'm particularly curious how this effects people's scores in competition - whether the judges judge the appearance from the first pour, or you wind up getting different scores from different judges, depending on who got which portion fo the beer.

Gelatin works well in kegs to keep the yeast stuck to the bottom, but I don't know how well that would translate to bottles. Judges and stewards are typically well practiced at proper pouring, so if the beer starts clear and is not overcarbonated, it will get poured clear. Appearance is only a couple of points anyway, but suspended yeast might significantly change the flavor of the beer and thus your score.

And thanks for your tone DannyW. I half expected to get back 'Yeah Idiot!! There's stuff in the bottom - sheesh!!' or something...

But we all know the BN Army's cooler than that...

Sure dude. Just another day of spreading sunshine and happiness!

[Mylo]

Or you can just forget that bottle conditioning crap all together and get yourself some kegs... You can always CPF if you need bottles.

+1 on what Danny said. Cold conditioning is your friend. If you can cool your carboy down to 40 for a few days before you rack into your bottling bucket - you will transfer less of the yeast cake from the primary. The cold tends to drop more of the yeast out and tighten up the cake - making it easier to rack clear beer off it. This is a much better approach then racking to a secondary and risk oxygenation and infection.

To improve your pour also try 1) to make sure that you have the cleanest glasses possible, and 2) pre-chill - NOT in the freezer. You want the glass to be the same temp as the beer you are pouring into it. If the glass is too cold, too warm, or slightly dirty - you are going to get foam that will force you to stop your pour midway. Pour once, pour completely. Do not tip the bottle back to vertical once you have started.


Mylo