CPBF and Beer Gun Bottle longevity?

[kace069]

Let me start by saying that, I fucking despise bottling. I hate it. But on occasion I do bottle for comps. I do not have a filler of my own, since I bottle so in frequently it, the price of a filler I feel is better spent on other equipment and ingredients for my brew house. So on the rare occasion that I do bottle I borrow a filler from friends and I have used both a Beer Gun and a CPBF to bottle in the past. In the past I have typically bottled my beers for comps no more then a week before deadline entry.

As of now I am currently planning a heavy beer run with my focus on two different comps. One in April and one in August. I plan on knocking out a few of the big beers on my brewing schedule now. But with my current brewing schedule I don't have enough cornies to hold all this beer, besides I need beer to drink in the mean time. So I am going to have to bottle and sit on some bottles of beer for a few months just to make space in cornies. I plan to store finished bottled beer in a refrigerator.

So I would like to hear the Army's experience with long term storage of beer bottled with a Beer Gun or a CPBF. I always hear Doc and Jamil talking about beers they enter into comps that are 4 and 5 years old. But have they sat in a keg the whole time and then bottled and shipped or bottled 5 years ago with one of these devices. I'm really worried about beer stability. I would prefer to bottle condition anything that is going to hang around for a while but I don't want to go through all the hassle for just 10 bottles or less per batch of beer and risk of contamination.

What is the longest you have held beer bottled by these methods? Did you notice any sort of deterioration of the beer?

[Mylo]

This really depends on 1) how good you are at eliminating the possibility of introducing oxygen - post fermentation, and 2) how well you store your beer. I have been racking into a completely purged keg through the beer dip tube for the last year or two. I really believe that will yield bottles that last for a LONG time. When I bottle, I always cap on foam.

Before I did that, I would just rack into a sanitized keg and purge the headspace. I have been storing homebrew cold for years (but I do not ever seem to have beer older than a year or two). If you keep it stable and cold, and your process is good, the beer will last a very long time (at least 3 years for 1.050 beers - and probably longer for higher alcohol beers).


Mylo

[kace069]

I know all the factors in keeping beer stable for a long shelf life.

What I am looking for is testimony of others who have stored beer for a long period of time using one of the above fillers to fill bottles.

I just don't have a lot of faith that these fillers can fill bottles well enough to hold up for 6 months. I can't fill and cap as fast as a commercial bottling line can.

[psyphinx]

You will definitely want to recruit a friend to help you bottle that way they are capped on foam as quickly as possible. As for me I can only speak of the Beergun but its been fantastic. I have recently been opening a doppelbock and RIS that are both 18 months old that were bottled from a keg with the Beergun that show no signs of oxidation or deterioration in flavor.

[kace069]

18 Months! Thats good news. I had always planned to bottle condition a whole batch of Barley Wine or RIS to lay down.

[Mylo]

What I meant to say is that the "longevity" of your beer is not related to using a CPF or a beergun, if you use them correctly. You don't have to "hurry and crimp the cap on" in order to prevent oxidation and preserve carbonation. By making sure that your beer is cold, and the carbonation level is appropriate to begin with (maybe a "touch" higher), you should be able to generate a little bit of foam in the process, which will fill the headspace with a CO2 laden head. When I pull my CPF out of the bottle, I re-open the beer line just a hair and drip some beer into the bottle to fill the space left by removing the device. It is mostly foam and then I lay my cap down right on top of the foam.

I have two and three year old beers done this way and they are no worse for wear then they would be if I bottle conditioned them. It's all related to the oxidation upstream, and how you store your beer - not the beergun or CPF.


Mylo

[kace069]

I would have to disagree with you a bit Mylo.

Since bottling is the last step in the process, I feel that the method of bottling is just as important as all the steps leading up to bottling day.

For instance I would not fill bottles using the Tasty method and expect them to hold up for 6 months to a year.

As soon as beer hits the bottom of the bottle it is losing carbonation. Capping quickly reduces the amount of carbonation lost.

Purging the bottle of oxygen is also crucial, a point that I feel a traditional CPBF is better suited for.

You can have perfect by the book brewing process and fermentation process and blow it all on bottling day.

I have had more then a couple of spectacular beers at pubs that end up being spectacular failures when bought by the bottle at a retailer all due to a poor bottling process. I have had beers I bought and laid down for aging that turn out to be terrible because of a poor bottling process.

If the filling device or other factors in the bottling process are not as good as your earlier processes bottling is a waste of time and no matter what you did prior, its not going to save that bottle of brew.

[Mylo]

I am NOT saying that you can be sloppy at bottling time. What I am saying is that a CPBFs and a beerguns are designed to package your beer with minimal, if ANY, oxidation. Both products allow you to purge with CO2. Will you loose a little bit of carbonation in the process? Sure. That is why I recommened that you make sure that your beer is cold, and maybe slightly overcarbonated. The beer is not "loosing carbonation as soon as it hits the bottom". A certain degree is lost - in the form of a small head (maybe 1/4"). You can easily fill the bottle within an inch from the top of the bottle, and cap on foam. There will not be any air left in the headspace - as it will contain only beer and CO2. Cold beer holds CO2 in the liquid. If you don't believe me, then get a 2L bottle of soda cold, open the cap (zero pressure), and close the cap again. Come back the next day, open the soda and pour yourself a glass. It will still be VERY carbonated, since there is minimal headspace and the CO2 was held in the soda. Try that experiment with warm soda (or even cold soda with a large headspace) and you will have flat soda the next day.

I can only speak from experience with a CPBF - I do not own a beergun. You are free to disagree and NOT purchase either.

And BTW, Tasty has told us himself that he shoots some CO2 down into each bottle before he uses the "Tasty Bottle Fill Method".... and then he goes and wins the Longshot. Could he have more of a problem 1-2 years down the road than if he used a conventional CPF? Perhaps - but I would bet that they would be just fine - if they lasted that long


Mylo