Woops, I Lost the Foam!

Wed May 13, 2009 3:12 pm

Lately I've heard Jamil and Johnny P mention that once beer has 'foamed' the compounds responsible for creating head have been expended and even reacarbonation will not produce head again.

How does this work when kegging? I'm in a rush to carbonate a kegged beer and am trying the shaking method. If I'm shaking up the beer this way am I using up all that foam inside the keg? I know the contents are under pressure, so it's like shaking up a beer bottle, which wouldn't expend the foam. But, when I start shaking the keg, the sloshing in the head space sounds very empty, but after awhile is muffled, making me think it's foamed up.

I guess I could use more info on this foam expenditure issue...
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monstersandpie
 
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Re: Woops, I Lost the Foam!

Wed May 13, 2009 3:15 pm

Sounds like mis-interpretation to me. Head retention is largely due to proteins in the beer. They don't evaporate. Shake away.


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Re: Woops, I Lost the Foam!

Thu May 14, 2009 9:49 am

I just bought my lines from B3. I didnt go with the superflex because they did not sell 100' in bulk and they were out of stock.
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Re: Woops, I Lost the Foam!

Thu May 14, 2009 10:26 am

monstersandpie wrote:Lately I've heard Jamil and Johnny P mention that once beer has 'foamed' the compounds responsible for creating head have been expended and even reacarbonation will not produce head again.

How does this work when kegging? I'm in a rush to carbonate a kegged beer and am trying the shaking method. If I'm shaking up the beer this way am I using up all that foam inside the keg? I know the contents are under pressure, so it's like shaking up a beer bottle, which wouldn't expend the foam. But, when I start shaking the keg, the sloshing in the head space sounds very empty, but after awhile is muffled, making me think it's foamed up.

I guess I could use more info on this foam expenditure issue...

The anlalogy of kegged beer being like a shaken up beer bottle does not work here. A bottle of beer is already carbonated. Your kegged beer isn't carbonated until you either force carb it or carb it over a week or 2 time peroid depending on the Temp and PSI. To force carb your keg turn the PSI up to about 30, take your keg and lay it on it's side with the C02 "IN" line at the top of the keg and roll the keg back and forth in a nice easy rocking motion. If you're doing it right you should hear the C02 entering the keg. I usually do this in two steps of 3 minutes or so each to avoid over carbing your beer. After ther first 3 minute rocking take a draw and see where the carbination is at. If you need another rocking session go ahead and do it. Just be careful not to over carb it. Hope that helps.
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Re: Woops, I Lost the Foam!

Thu May 14, 2009 10:39 am

SunkenBier wrote:I just bought my lines from B3. I didnt go with the superflex because they did not sell 100' in bulk and they were out of stock.


Damn. posted that to the wrong thread
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Re: Woops, I Lost the Foam!

Thu May 14, 2009 1:10 pm

I think i heard the same program about beer foam and have read an article at some time to the same point.The agents in beer responsible for stable foam and lacing are in limited supply and do not regenerate or re incorporate back into the properties of the beer.Even though the beer may retain carbonation,after they are depleted,there won't be anything forming on top of your beer to call foam or head.After reading some other articles on foam and lacing and the agents responsible for it,the idea made sense.So,as tutorials went on to say,if you are shaking the keg during your carbonation technique,you will lose some,if not nearly all of those agents depending on how much you shake it up.
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Re: Woops, I Lost the Foam!

Thu May 14, 2009 2:38 pm

Yeah, Jamil discusses the loss of foam due to excessive blow offs and then goes into the bit about shaking, transferring, rousing and other things that can coax the foam out of the beer before its time. Check at the 40min mark in the Brew Strong Head Retention show.

To paraphrase he says, "...the head forming protiens are only used once. So it delivers the head and once it's done, it drops to the bottom and it's no longer available to form head again."

I think with a kegged beer, it's probably not too big a deal since any loss is averaged out over all the beers in the keg - much like loss due to a blowoff would be. However, in a blowoff situation you're probably dealing with a beer that's on the extra foamy side, whereas a smaller beer might exhibit more loss from transfers, shaking, etc...

With this beer, I hooked up the cold keg at about 16psi, and put it upright in front of me. I sat in a chair and just shook the top of the keg - enough to get that little bit of headspace moving around. As I shook I could hear my regulator letting in more gas. I shook like this for 5 minutes and then turned the whole keg upside down to mix things up thoroughly. After leaving it in the fridge for a half hour or so, I tried shaking again at the suggested pressure from How to Brew and could hear that hardly any CO2 was entering the keg as I shook. few hours later, I hooked it up and drew a small glass. The beer was cloudy with yeast and dryhops, but was very well carbonated and had decent head retention, considering all the nucleation sites in suspension. In only a 1.039 beer this seemed pretty impressive.

The other thing that surprised me in the Head Retention show was the suggestion to get the beer off the yeast - particularly the yeast sediment in a keg if the beer has been inside for a long time. I don't know that I've experienced this kind of loss, but it has me considering transferring the beer into a new keg once it's pouring clear.
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Re: Woops, I Lost the Foam!

Thu May 14, 2009 2:40 pm

oh yeah - does anyone know the source for this 'protein loss' concept?
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