Big volume starters: to pitch or not to pitch?

[philbrasil]

...that is the question!!

I heard on TBN shows that if your starter is more than 5% of the batch size, you should not pitch it, because it can alter the flavor of the beer. That means a limit of 1L for a 5 gallon batch.

The thing is I only brew on weekends. And sometimes I get a vial that has been sitting around for quite awhile (after 'best-before' date) or I want to brew a massive Imperial Stout (OG 1.100). What do I do then?

I usually do a 1-2L starter from friday to saturday on a stir-plate. 24 hours gone and I could either:
- pitch that whole thing into a 5L starter (which I do quite often)
- crash cool and wait for things to settle down.

Given the first option, I don´t think I would have time to pitch, since I need another 24hours before I crash cool to pitch...So I need to wait another week to pitch, right?

Given the second option, is it safe to say that I could decant the liquid after only, say, 12-15 hours and I woulnd´t discard the less flocculent yeast? Do I need to wait more?

I am always inclined not to crash cool, decant and pitch because I feel like the yeast is dormant there. I am not sure if it´s better to just dump the whole ACTIVE thing in a 1L starter.

Anyways, very confused here, so if anyone could offer me advice, I take it!

[brewindruid]

Can only tell you what I normally do, doesn't make it right or the best way, YMMV!
I store and repitch so viable yeast is always a concern. Were I you I would grow my pitch over 36 hours in a 2 liter starterL. Crash it till the day before, decant the night before the brew day , or better yet a good six or so hours before your pitch time. Pitch it to a 1 liter starter and plan to pitch to fermenter at or about high Krausen.

Hope that helps a bit

Cheers
Scott

[Ozwald]

Given the second option, is it safe to say that I could decant the liquid after only, say, 12-15 hours and I woulnd´t discard the less flocculent yeast? Do I need to wait more?

I am always inclined not to crash cool, decant and pitch because I feel like the yeast is dormant there. I am not sure if it´s better to just dump the whole ACTIVE thing in a 1L starter.

That would be a very good choice. I frequently use a similar technique to separate my yeast & get the selection I'm looking for (read my Yeast Rinsing topic for more details).

Remember you don't need to pitch an active starter for a good fermentation. It can help in some cases, but by large it's completely unnecessary. The important thing is you pitch the correct amount of healthy cells. By feeding your starter nutrients & using the appropriate volumes/steps, you can grow a nice big colony of healthy cells. Crashing it isn't instant dormancy, it's more like a athlete who's trained hard & is well fed, resting before his big race. Not the best analogy, but it should get my point across. I never pitch an active starter & always decant as much as possible before I do pitch.

Another thing to note, it's not a good idea to cold crash the starter before it's done. Sometimes, not always, you can run into attenuation problems. I don't know if it's feasible for you, but if I could only brew on weekends, I'd do my starter on Wednesday instead of Friday & just let it run it's course. Let it floc, decant on brew day & you should be good on Sat or Sun.

[spiderwrangler]

I generally let my starters go until they aren't producing bubbles WITHIN the solution (I just shine a light through it to check), as I figure once that has stopped, fermentation of the starter wort is done. I'll then chill and decant. Doing a starter with constant aeration like a stirplate for me seems to result in noticeable darkening of the wort, which I always attributed to oxidation... something I don't need to be adding almost 2L of to my beer. IF you are starting with older yeast, step it up a time or too if you need to get your health and numbers back up, then make your larger starter for high gravity and go from there.

[Ozwald]

I DISAGREE!

I'm not sure with what, but since Spidey-Whitey wrote it, I'm just sure it's wrong.

[brewinhard]

I DISAGREE!

I'm not sure with what, but since Spidey-Whitey wrote it, I'm just sure it's wrong.

Always causing trouble aren't ya' Oz!

[santamarina]

I've always pitched the entire starter off my stir plate. My batch sizes run from 6-12 gallons, and I've not yet had a problem with adding undesirable flavors, even in lighter styles like Ordinary Bitter or Weizen. I'm planning to try the cool/decant method one of these days, but with the success I've had at just pitching the entire 1-2L starter I haven't really been pushing the idea.

[Ozwald]

I DISAGREE!

I'm not sure with what, but since Spidey-Whitey wrote it, I'm just sure it's wrong.

Always causing trouble aren't ya' Oz!

I dislike that.