Keeler and Dawson

[MikeB]

Not to come off like an asshat, but does anyone here run a business? If so, then you'll understand that the goal of every business is to make money and that in specialized industries, like home brewing, it's difficult. Think of all the things that come together: increased costs of goods, increased shipping costs, customers that want everything but don't want to pay for it (and before everyone cries foul, I understand that you're willing to pay a few $ more, but you're still the very small minority), etc.

With not being involved in their operations, there could be be a number of factors that have affected their shipping policies: contracting with FedEx to reduce overall shipping costs (not just consumer shipping), customer complaints about poor packaging (cramming things into a USPS envelope) and/or damaged goods due to poor packaging, etc.

I'm not sure about Keeler and Dawson and the details of why or how they left, but I'm pretty sure that most companies are trying to succeed. And, for the moment, that means controlling overall business costs, making as many customers happy as you can (can't please everyone), and controlling overall business costs. No one really seems to know what happened, but speculating about potentially negative incidents isn't fair to NB.

First, there are plenty of online homebrew stores that offer good prices and reasonable shipping, some of which are sponsors of the BN (Morebeer, Williams, Brewmaster's Warehouse, HomeBrewStuff.com., Austin Homebrew Supply, etc.). I've had great experiences with a few of these companies and will continue to do business with them.

Second, if "contolling business costs" leads to a group of your best employees leaving your business, you aren't controlling cost. In fact, you just increased your labor costs because your best employees, individually, are worth far more than the wages of one employee.

Third, the goal of business is not just making money. What's the difference between making money and work? If you don't think there is a difference, you obviously don't enjoy what you do. If your job is making money for a living, I feel for you, because you don't have much of a life. I hate to break it to you, but money isn't real, especially not the fiat currency we know as "The Dollar".

If you are not willing to work for your principles, the corporate overlords already have your soul. God help you redeem it.

signed - Monty Burns

[12stones]

First, there are plenty of online homebrew stores that offer good prices and reasonable shipping, some of which are sponsors of the BN (Morebeer, Williams, Brewmaster's Warehouse, HomeBrewStuff.com., Austin Homebrew Supply, etc.). I've had great experiences with a few of these companies and will continue to do business with them.

Second, if "contolling business costs" leads to a group of your best employees leaving your business, you aren't controlling cost. In fact, you just increased your labor costs because your best employees, individually, are worth far more than the wages of one employee.

Third, the goal of business is not just making money. What's the difference between making money and work? If you don't think there is a difference, you obviously don't enjoy what you do. If your job is making money for a living, I feel for you, because you don't have much of a life. I hate to break it to you, but money isn't real, especially not the fiat currency we know as "The Dollar".

If you are not willing to work for your principles, the corporate overlords already have your soul. God help you redeem it.

Monty,

First, you can choose to buy from whomever you wish. Thinking, however, that one business's prices and practices has to reflect every other's isn't the way it works. Just because one or more companies offer reasonable shipping rates doesn't mean they're making money. Or even if they are, then maybe the owners' whole business models are completely different and they're after different things. Think Southwest Airlines vs US Airways here. One doesn't make the other wrong; just different.

Second, I wasn't aware anyone here actually knew why they left. Assuming they left because of the practices doesn't 1) make it true or 2) mean that they're not looking to control costs. Again, without knowing the details and the motivations behind the scenesfrom all parties involved, it's all just assumption. And you know what they say about that.

Third, starting a business is always about making money. That might not be the company's overall purpose. It might not always be about personal gain and it should be doing something you enjoy, but companies don't last long if they never become profitable. Don't confuse owning and running a business with work. Most people want job satisfaction and want to contribute to a greater good, but running a business is much more than that. Especially when you have employees and their families to think of.

Finally, philosophies about whether money is real or not aside, it's what we all work for. We all differ in why, how or how much we work for it, but assuming that because someone works only for money doesn't mean their life is any less full than yours or that it's lacking in anything. It just means it's different from yours. Again, you know what they say about assuming.

My whole point is that before everyone jumps on the anti-NB bandwagon, that it may just be that there's more to the whole story than anyone knows.

[Monty Burns]

You don't seem to be a macro-level thinker Mr. Stones and there is nothing wrong with that. So indulge me wanting to help you see the big picture:

Remember the craft beer boom in the 90's? What happened? Entrepreneurs came in with their investors, looking to make a quick buck, and sold inferior product at premium prices. Customers didn't see the value, stopped buying, and these entities went out of business. The breweries that didn't compromise, didn't jump on the "microbrew bandwagon", and continued to produce a quality product, are now leaders in this wave of craft brewing industry growth. This isn't philosophy or theory. This is what happened.

As the craft brewing market becomes over-saturated given the rapid growth of the industry, some businesses will be forced out. I don't care who gets forced out (as I have no relations with any beer/brewing entity except for the AHA and BN) because the industry is still boutique enough to regulate itself (and I hope it stays that way). In other words, those that are doing right by its customers will stay, and those who don't will leave.

In regards to Northern Brewer rumors, they are irrelevant. If your business practices led to four of your best employees leaving, you don't need to "assume" the details, its obvious you fucked up. Maybe it's not obvious to you but I'm hoping you see my point. It's important to see the parallels because as the old adage goes: "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

[JoeBeer100]

FnRDWHAFHB

[Dirk McLargeHuge]

FnRDWHAFHB

Exactly.

You can read evil machinations into the departure of these guys, or you can read a disagreement into it. Until the folks who left let us know why they left, any assumption as to why they left is basically . No one here knows why things went down. And to assume it's the fault of greedy blood suckers is premature.

There are two sides to every story.

[12stones]

FnRDWHAFHB

Exactly.

You can read evil machinations into the departure of these guys, or you can read a disagreement into it. Until the folks who left let us know why they left, any assumption as to why they left is basically . No one here knows why things went down. And to assume it's the fault of greedy blood suckers is premature.

There are two sides to every story.

Well said, Dirk. That was my point; guess I shouldn't use so many words next time.

[passlaku]

I heard that they left because $7.99 shipping was that important. Keeler set Dawson's beard on fire and everything over that shit. Everybody freaked out. It was obvious that Chip had to resign because he didn't catch that shit on tape.

But the nail in the coffin was NB's refusal to provide them with a large plate of Oreo halves without frosting and a pack of Magnum condoms every week. If you ask me, NB's refusal not to do so is the definition of corporate greed. What a bunch of assholes!

What have you guys heard?

[Duzdisluk Infektid]

I got a PM from a dude on another forum with pretty much the same thread.
He says he has a friend on the inside that confirms irreconcilable differences with management over the new direction of the company.
As far as I know, none of the four that left have confirmed or denied this. Frankly, I'd be surprised if they did. Nothing good could come from burning those bridges.