First decoction = EPIC fail

[spiderwrangler]

For overshoot cold water is about the only thing you can do and while here too there will be dilution there isn't much you can do about it.

Would adding ice instead get you the temp drop without the dilution, or would that make it harder to hit the temp you want?

[ajdelange]

No reason ice shouldn't work if you are careful. One caveat, though. I've noticed that most ice stinks from odors picked up in the refrigerator/freezer I assume. You'd want to be sure that the ice was clean i.e. would not add flavors or aromas.

It just occured to me that I suppose you could lower an immersion chiller into the mash.

I just use water and yes the mash does get thinner but it's not excessively so in my experience.

[Bugeater]

One thing that stood out for me in your description was boiling the thin mash. The thin mash is full of the enzymes you need for conversion. Denaturing these may cause some problems if conversion was not essentially complete before the decoction.

I do a decoction now and then primarily to raise the temperature during a step mash (something I seldom do). If I fail to reach the next step temperature, I get out my electric bucket heater and use that to stir the mash until it gets up to temperature. The bucket heater is a great gadget for heating your strike water so you don't waste propane.

Wayne

[RokGoblin]

One thing that stood out for me in your description was boiling the thin mash. The thin mash is full of the enzymes you need for conversion. Denaturing these may cause some problems if conversion was not essentially complete before the decoction.

I do a decoction now and then primarily to raise the temperature during a step mash (something I seldom do). If I fail to reach the next step temperature, I get out my electric bucket heater and use that to stir the mash until it gets up to temperature. The bucket heater is a great gadget for heating your strike water so you don't waste propane.

Wayne

Thanks for the input Wayne. This is good info. I need to build an electric stir stick with a spare heating element for this purpose. I was wondering about how boiling the thin mash might affect the final product. My OG numbers were only a few points off.

Next time I think I will raise the thick mash temp with the stir stick if I build it before then.

[ajdelange]

I was wondering about how boiling the thin mash might affect the final product....
Next time I think I will raise the thick mash temp with the stir stick if I build it before then.

The scorching problem can be ameliorated somewhat by adding some water to the decoction right after you pull it. The object in pulling a thick decoction isn't to have a thick decoction so much as it is to leave the majority of the enzymes in with the rest mash.

[RokGoblin]

The scorching problem can be ameliorated somewhat by adding some water to the decoction right after you pull it. The object in pulling a thick decoction isn't to have a thick decoction so much as it is to leave the majority of the enzymes in with the rest mash.

[/quote]
I was wondering about that, I saw a video where the guy used a strainer and he didnt pull much liquid, but I though surely you need to cover the grains with liquid, so I pulled some thin mash with it to just barely cover the grains of the thick mash. I had no idea really, I was just winging it at that point

I just racked this to keg today and had a taste (finished at 1.014)...the burnt flavor had subsided a bit and was more like a mild burnt toast flavor, and the base beer was a really good first attempt at a Dunkelweizen. I think I am going to make another attempt at this recipe and the decoction process very soon.

[RokGoblin]

Thanks to everyone who has been replying...keep those suggestions coming. This was a good learning experience for sure.

[Kaiser]

Rok,

Sorry to hear that your first decoction was such an EPIC. But it seems that it wasn't a fail and you enjoy the beer.

To comment on the scorching, stirring while heating is needed. At least until you gelatenized and liquified the starch. That's the part I like the least about decoction mashing where a decoction is pulled below the sacc rest. After that I'm fine with occasional stirring until it comes to a boil. Gentle heating is key.

As for undershooting the temp. This is pretty common and you'll have to get a feel for how much more than the calculated amount you have to pull. But if you do undershoot sacc rest temp, you don't have to rush to take immediate action. In you case you hit 148 F ( ~64 C) which you could hold for 30 min (longer gives you more fermentable wort and shorter less fermetable) while you figure out how much decoction to pull to get to 162 F (72 C). Then you hold it there for 30-45 min (or even longer). This finishes the conversion. What you will have done is a 2 step saccharificaion that is actually common in German brewing.

Cheers,
Kai