Re: Flanders Red & First Sour

Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:36 am

Flanders' Reds are typically and historically racked into oak foeders, while oud bruins get racked into stainless steel tanks for souring. Lambics are traditionally left on the yeast cake in oak barrels where the long aging process provides the bacteria and brett with nutrients from the autolysed yeast cells during aging. This helps sour the beer nicely.

With that being said, I have made great flanders reds/browns by racking off the primary after about 3-4 wks. and letting them age in carboys for extended periods of time. I have also made flanders reds w/o racking them off the primary and leaving them on the primary yeast cake in the same carboy for 18 mos, with no hints of yeast autolysis, but rather a very sour, well attenuated beer.

For most of my lambics, I will leave them in the primary on the initial yeast cake for the entire aging period until I add fruit or blend them. I will only rack them over if I plan to reuse the yeast for another batch. Both methods have worked well for me in sour beer production.

So, you can either be historically accurate or brew how you want to and both ways will yield good results. Good luck and most of all have fun with these beers!
"A bad man is a good man's job, while a good man is a bad man's teacher."
brewinhard
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:41 am
Location: Fredonia, NY

Re: Flanders Red & First Sour

Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:43 am

There you go, looks like either way will work fine. I personally have never left any of my sours on the primary yeast cake, but it looks like brewinghard has had good results with that process. One of the main reasons I always racked is the size of the aging vessel I like to ferment in a 6.5 but dont want to age with that much headspace. I like to fill the carboy almost full so that there is less oxygen/acetobacter production. Second reason I rack Is i have two barrels a 6 and a 6.5 to age my sours in. If you like sour beer i highly recomend in investing in one of these things.
BrewerJ
 
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:15 am
Location: Reno, NV

Re: Flanders Red & First Sour

Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:01 pm

BrewerJ wrote:There you go, looks like either way will work fine. I personally have never left any of my sours on the primary yeast cake, but it looks like brewinghard has had good results with that process. One of the main reasons I always racked is the size of the aging vessel I like to ferment in a 6.5 but dont want to age with that much headspace. I like to fill the carboy almost full so that there is less oxygen/acetobacter production. Second reason I rack Is i have two barrels a 6 and a 6.5 to age my sours in. If you like sour beer i highly recomend in investing in one of these things.



BrewerJ (sorry, not trying to steal this thread), but where did you pick up those size barrels from and how much? They sound like a perfect size for my brewing capacities.
"A bad man is a good man's job, while a good man is a bad man's teacher."
brewinhard
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:41 am
Location: Fredonia, NY

Re: Flanders Red & First Sour

Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:03 pm

One of them I purchased from my local homebrew shop, the other one I ordered directly from vadai barrels.
Here is the link to vadai http://www.vadaiwinebarrels.com/index.a ... ge&name=57 and they make theres out of hungarian oak which is mild and closer to french. They are also very well built with thick staves about the same as a 53 gallon barrel.

If you are in to brewing lots of sour beer they are great. I get much better results and faster souring using them vs just carboys. The downside is you have to keep them full once you start or else you will end up with a acetobactor barrel. I have been using mine for the last three years the flanders is on its fifth batch or so and the lambic is on number 4. Secondly, all the literature says that you get large volumes of 02 from small barrels. That may be true, but with bugs and minimal topping i have been making sours with very little to none acetic character.
BrewerJ
 
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:15 am
Location: Reno, NV

Re: Flanders Red & First Sour

Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:07 am

looks like morebeer sells them now also http://morebeer.com/search/102198/beerw ... ak_Barrels
BrewerJ
 
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:15 am
Location: Reno, NV

Re: Flanders Red & First Sour

Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:41 pm

Thanks man! I'll have to check in to those now that I have some extra room for aging. Due to the increased micro-oxygenation in those smaller barrels, how long do you end up leaving the beer in there for, or is it more just by tasting to determine when they are ready?
"A bad man is a good man's job, while a good man is a bad man's teacher."
brewinhard
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:41 am
Location: Fredonia, NY

Re: Flanders Red & First Sour

Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:41 pm

It really depends on the beer and what I want out of it. The flanders barrel just has the roselare bugs which are less aggressive in my opinion so I usually leave the beer in there for about a year. I top up and taste every couple of months. My other barrel is a collection of microbes from various bottles cantillon, jolly pumpkin, russian river. I did a temptation clone that I left in there for 4 months and it came out fairly tart, 8 months and its sour sour, 1 month and its farmhouse/jolly pumpkin like. If want to do any extended aging its in kegs. The micro oxygen of the barrel really lets the bugs flourish and contribute bolder flavors in a shorter amount of time.

I think they are a great addition to the serious brewer, they will be to oaky at first to do any extended aging. Start it out with some oaked big beers, first beer 2-4 weeks, second 4-8, and then once the oak has died down you can start innoculating the barrel with bugs!!
BrewerJ
 
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:15 am
Location: Reno, NV

Re: Flanders Red & First Sour

Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:23 am

Cool! Great tips and thanks for the timelines. Now I just have to convince my wife that I need yet more brewing equipment in my house.... :lol:
"A bad man is a good man's job, while a good man is a bad man's teacher."
brewinhard
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:41 am
Location: Fredonia, NY

PreviousNext

Return to All Grain Brewing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

A BIT ABOUT US

The Brewing Network is a multimedia resource for brewers and beer lovers. Since 2005, we have been the leader in craft beer entertainment and information with live beer radio, podcasts, video, events and more.