Input on APA Recipe??

[Timboosh]

What's up everybody - New to the forum, but have been following the Brewcasts for a little while...

I'm pretty new to brewing overall, and REALLY new to making my own recipes. I'm still learning a lot about all the different ingredients used.

I'm Looking to brew an APA this weekend... Any thoughts on this recipe good or bad?? Any ingredients that look way out of place?? Input on what you'd do differently??

Thanks in advance...

5.5 Gallon Batch

Fermentables
UK Pale Ale Malt (Maris Otter) 10lb 0oz
US Caramel 20L Malt 8.00 oz
Canadian Honey Malt (Gambrinus) 8.00 oz
US Munich 20L Malt 8.00 oz

Hops
US Chinook 11.0 % 0.50 oz 17.9 Loose Pellet Hops 60 Min From End
US Centennial 9.1 % 0.50 oz 11.4 Loose Pellet Hops 30 Min From End
US Chinook 11.0 % 0.50 oz 6.5 Loose Pellet Hops 10 Min From End
US Amarillo 10.8 % 1.00 oz 1.5 Loose Pellet Hops 1 Min From End
US Centennial 9.1 % 0.50 oz 0.0 Loose Pellet Hops At turn off

Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.043 SG
Expected OG: 1.051 SG
Expected FG: 1.012 SG
Expected ABV: 5.1 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 37.2 IBU
Expected Color (using Morey): 6.6 SRM
Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Duration: 75.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 64 degF

Yeast: WLP007 Dry English Ale (0.5L starter)

[hopshead]

The hops look a little low for my tastes and I think that the malt bill has to many melanoidin malts. An english yeast might work if it is not that fruity and finishes dry, but a cleaner american yeast is more appropriate. Either way though, you will make a good beer with that recipe.

[Timboosh]

The hops look a little low for my tastes and I think that the malt bill has to many melanoidin malts. An english yeast might work if it is not that fruity and finishes dry, but a cleaner american yeast is more appropriate. Either way though, you will make a good beer with that recipe.

Thanks for the reply & info, Much appreciated!!

TBH, I've never even heard of the term 'melanoidin', but after some googling, I think I understand it... kinda...

What do you think about dropping the Munich 20L and pushing the 30min centennial addition up to 60 min to get a bit more bitterness out of it (bumps it to 41 IBU)?? I actually have some Pilsner Malt on hand that I could sub for some of the MO if it would help with the meladoinins??

I do kinda want to keep the honey malt, basically because I've never brewed with it before and am curious to experiment with it...

Thanks again.

- Timbo

[pfooti]

As an aside, I think Tasty was collaborating with the brewer at Downtown Joe's on an APA that had honey malt, and they ended up cutting it out. But everybody has their own tastes.

Personally I'd cut both of the 20L additions, and convert them to just another pound of MO. Actually, I'd probably do something like 8 lbs of 2-row and 3 of munich in this brew, or maybe a 7-4 split of 2-row and MO. I have been playing with MO in APAs and american IPAs, and it's just a bit too much. I also think the 20L grains with the honey malt will end up making the entire thing too sweet. But something like 11 lbs of base and 8 oz of honey malt should be pretty good.

I actually mostly like your hopping schedule for an APA; were you brewing an IPA, I'd tell you to increase the chinook addition to 1 oz. The one thing I'd change is I'd reduce the amarillo to 0.5 oz, and use that leftover half ounce as dry hop. I'd also consider dry hopping with an additional half ounce of either chinook or centennial (total of one ounce dry).

I don't know how new you are to brewing in general, but make sure you're actually at 75% efficiency when you brew. The grain bill looks a tad light to me, but I typically only hit 70% with my batch sparge setup, and I also tend to shoot for slightly bigger beers (1.065 or more) too, so my expectations might be off.

I agree with hopshead, I'd definitely shoot for an american ale yeast here, calale or the like. If you use the 007, definitely try and ferment somewhat chilly (62ish), as it can throw esters. On the other hand I'm pretty sure Stone uses that yeast in most of their pale ales, so who can argue with that? If you can't keep fermentation temps below 65, I'd say to definitely use 001 instead.

[Timboosh]

Very cool - thanks for the input pfooti!

Good call, btw - The first session at downtown joes where Tasty and Colin were talking about honey malt was actually part of the inspiration for this beer... I know they took the Honey malt out, but I'm curious to try it. That, and one of my recent favorite beers - Terrapin Rye - uses honey malt in the grain bill. That's why I figured I'd give it a shot.

Sounds like both of you guys would look to pull back on the 'malty' malts (MO, C20, Munich). So, looks like I should definitely do some tweaking there. I'll definitely pick up some 001 too.

Good call on the efficiency. I'm definitely a new brewer. This will only be my 7th AG batch. The past four batches I've done, I've taken to doing a 'double' batch sparge. If I need, say, a 5 gal sparge, I'll break it into two 2.5 gal sparges (possibly at the risk of extracting some tannins, but I didn't taste any tannin weirdness in those beers). Doing that, and my efficiency has actually been consistent at 78-79%.

[BDawg]

I agree- leave out the honey malt and keep the munich. I'd also change the C20 to C40.

I love 007 as a general replacement for Cal Ale, as long as you can keep the fermentation cool. It ferments quite clean. 001 I find to be a bit too "sterile".

Beware the temptation to get above .80 BU:GU in an APA. I've found that level to be the demarkation point into IPA land, and that's where I've found many/most judges will start to dock APAs for tasting too bitter (myself included).

If you haven't already gotten yourself a copy, Ray Daniels' book "Designing Great Beers" is a must when you start formulating your own recipes.

HTH-

[Timboosh]

Thanks Bdawg...

I'll definitely keep the BU:GU in mind. The recipe as shown is @ a 0.65 BU:GU... I definitely want this to be an APA, not an IPA, so I'm not looking to go overboard with the hops. I may try it with the honey malt now and in another few weeks duplicate the recipe and just change the honey malt out with the Munich to see which I like better.

Not that I can't go get some, but I don't have any C40 on hand... but I do have some C90 left from a previous batch. I know it's not the same as C40, but thoughts on blending C20 and a little C90 to get a little darker caramel flavor??

The only Brewing book I have currently is Palmer's. I'll have to look at picking that one up too. I'm having a bunch of fun making my own recipes, but the last one I finished (a rye beer - solely because I wanted to brew with rye) while drinkable, certainly isn't what I'd call a great beer...

Much appreciated.

[pfooti]

+1 on getting designing great beers. It's a very nice book which looks at second-round entries in the NHC and what sorts of ingredients they use. Ironically, I don't think there's an APA chapter though.

Another good book to start with for recipes is JZ and JP's Brewing Classic Styles. Each recipe is good, and there's enough discussion that you can use it as a departure point for making modifications. BCS is more of a cookbook, and DGB is more of an engineering book, but they go very well together. Both could use a version update, IMO- DGB could probably benefit a lot from more data, cleaning up a few charts, and refreshing to the newer BJCP categories. But as-is they're still great resources.