Persistent infection? Beer smells like garbage!

[Beer Baron]

I am having a huge problem with an infection that I can't seem to shake - my last 3 or four batches smell like the bottom of a trash can. I recently discovered that the star san and water solution that I have been using to sanitize may have been ineffective because of the extreme hardness of the tap water I was using to mix it with (230 ppm CaCo3). Should I mix up a tub of bleach water and give all of my equipment an overnight soak? I bought an extra water jug to carry RO water for mixing sanitizer. I am trying to systematically eliminate potential sources of infection - does anyone have any suggestions? I am at my wit's end and ready to chuck the hobby, as I have wasted more than $100 on ingredients and probably 30+ hours of time on my last 4 (all-grain) batches and have nothing to show for it other than beer that turns my stomach at the smell of it and is ending up down the drain...

[BDawg]

Yes, that level of carbonate is very high and you'll have a hard time getting the Star San pH down low enough to work.

1) You can pre-boil your water to precipitate carbonates out. Palmer talks about it in his book.
2) You can dose it with lactic and /or phosphoric acid but I don't know how much. AJ probably could answer that.
3) You can cut it with RO or Distilled water.

Did you consider getting an RO system for your house? I bet you have water problems as it is. The wife and kids will probably thank you for doing so.

Depending on what equipment you are talking about, and what kind of infection, you may need to replace the rubber and plastic.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Good luck, brotha.

[larry78cj7]

The smell of garbage makes me think your wort is rotting.

1. Keep it simple, if you are new to brewing use extract. Once you have sanitation and fermentation temp down, then go all grain.
2. Cool your wort before putting the yeast in.
3. Pick up a copy of "How to Brew", by John Palmer
4. Bleach works greats to kill bacteria, but you have to rinse the bleach away before brewing. (it will kill the brewers yeast and kill anything else; so yes wash your equipment with it and then rinse it and never use it again)
5. We have all been though this, you will get though it too. Don't give up.
Keep listening. Doctor Scott is the best at helping brewers though their problems. Start at the firsts show and listen to them all.

[bikefoolery]

Baron,

We'd like to help. Tell us more about your brewing setup. Tell us about your process from flameout into fermenter(chilling, air exposure, tubing, ball valves)?

Do the ingredients smell / taste right prior to brewing?

When does it smell and taste bad? (mid fermentation? or at packaging?)

How/Are you taking samples?

What are you smelling/tasting? (Some yeast suck and kick a gnar sulpur out that fades. some yeast it's a sign of poor health/chloramides and chloramines)

Consider switching up sanitizers and moving to another that's more agreeable with your water situation, maybe iodophor?.

Don't give up. Kick that bug out of the brewery!

The Fool.

PS, send that beer to the rat pad. With Chad's departure to the pro ranks, Justin's going to need crutch beer. Or send it in and get some live help on air.

PPS, my water is horrendous. the shower smells like a chlorinated spa, in the bad way. I treat it with a 3 stage carbon filter. Still a slight mineral, but drinkable. I cut it with distilled.

[Junket]

Could be extreme DMS from slow/covered chilling?

[Quin]

The Charlie Talley show mentiojned a specific maximum pH that Starsan is effective. I believe it was 3.5. I also have high carbonates and alkalinity, so bought the Colorphast pH strips in that range to test the effectiveness of Starsan before using. You'll want the narrow range 2.5-4.5.

http://www.sanitationtools.com/Products ... ategory=72

[BarefootLion]

I would say try all new hoses instead of trying to clean those. they are cheap enough to replace.

Then bomb everything you can with the best santizer + some heat.

Then brew up a small batch and see.

[manwithbeers]

I too am wondering about the sanitizer used here. If the pH is above 3.0 it isn't effective. Does the Star San mix appear clear? Are you mixing it in Tap water or Distilled water?

Star San is great stuff if it is used as directed. Hard water will change the pH right away which is why distilled water is recommended.

The first time I used Star San I mixed it with Distilled water. That was the cheapest sanitizer I ever had. It lasted over 3 months before it got slightly hazy then I tossed that batch and used another 1/2 oz of concentrate mixed in tap water. I planned to dump that batch right away but I do have very low mineral content in the tap water. I left it to sit in a carboy and used it for a month. then I stopped brewing but kept the sanitizer to see if it would change. In the second month it seemed normal. I dumped some into a bucket and then back into another carboy and it instantly went cloudy. I'm not sure if it went cloudy on the first transfer into the plastic pail or on the transfer into the next carboy but my guess is that there was something there that changed the pH just enough for it to go south.

I'm always dumping the spray bottle now because I never know if it is good because I can't see it. Small price to pay as there is always a couple gallons or so to use up anyway!