Equivalent to Spaten Oktoberfest.

[GuinnessGirl]

Ok . . ok. . .I'm not sure if I'm even posting this into the right category (feel free to change it), but I'm REALLY curious. While Guinness is truly my favorite beer of all time, I've tasted a variety of local Guinness knock-offs that ranged from o.k. to "UGH! What were you thinking???"

So far, I have yet to see anyone mess with a beer similar to that of Spaten (or better yet, Spaten Oktoberfest). Very rarely do I ever get to drink it and was curious to know if anyone has attempted this glorious recipe of malt and hops (or whatever it is. . . I'm very new).

Not sure if asking this would make you guys want to beat me with sticks, but do as you wish!

[Crinkle]

As tempting as the invitation to the stick beating event is, this is the perfect spot for that post. I, however do not have an answer for you, I try to avoid brewing cloned beers. Don't get me wrong, I've had very good ones, and have no problems drinking them, but I really enjoy writing and brewing my own recipes. Of course there is a learning curve. I did, however create a very good recipe for a 3 gallon all grain oktoberfest if you want to try that sometime. I usually partial mash, so there is no need for a huge, all grain system. Just by normal kettle and 2 gallon cooler with a vegetable steamer as a false bottom.

[Quin]

One of the Dan Gordon shows discussed their Marzen recipe. He interned at Spaten and mentioned his version was close to theirs.

It's been awhile since I had Spaten Oktoberfest, but I remember it being more bready malty and less Caramunich-iky.

If that is your impression also, 64% pils malt, 32% light munich malt, 4 % Aromatic or melanoidin malt OG=1.054. IBU = 25 works for me.

[craigevo]

Strange definition from BJCP of Oktoberfest. They say of the flavour .. "Noticeable caramel or roasted flavors are inappropriate"

Yet every recipe iv seen for oktoberfest includes caramunich or caravienna. I havent had many commerical fests but the ones I had I thought had some carmel.

Interestingly the website of (Spatens) the BJCP's commerical ref quotes "This medium bodied beer has achieved its impeccable taste by balancing the roasted malt flavor with the perfect amount of hops"

So whats going on here. I realise there are different interpretations on a style, but clearly many oktoberfests include some caramel malt and one of the most revered and traditional commercial fest (Spaten) even has roasted flavours.

At first I thought it was a typo on the BJCP site, but then scrolled up to their Aroma description to find "Caramel aroma is inappropriate"

Then another of their commercial ref beers (Hacker-Pschorr Oktoberfest) describes its own fest as "brewed with natural Spring Water, caramelized Barley,"

and another .."Gordon Biersch Märzen accentuates the flavors of the dark roasted imported malted barley and exhibits a caramel malt aftertaste"

hmm. I might just contact BJCP and ask them to clarify - I know, BJCP is not the bible, just brew what you like, but really, very strange!

[JohnF]

Strange definition from BJCP of Oktoberfest. They say of the flavour .. "Noticeable caramel or roasted flavors are inappropriate"

Yet every recipe iv seen for oktoberfest includes caramunich or caravienna. I havent had many commerical fests but the ones I had I thought had some carmel.

Interestingly the website of (Spatens) the BJCP's commerical ref quotes "This medium bodied beer has achieved its impeccable taste by balancing the roasted malt flavor with the perfect amount of hops"

So whats going on here. I realise there are different interpretations on a style, but clearly many oktoberfests include some caramel malt and one of the most revered and traditional commercial fest (Spaten) even has roasted flavours.

At first I thought it was a typo on the BJCP site, but then scrolled up to their Aroma description to find "Caramel aroma is inappropriate"

Then another of their commercial ref beers (Hacker-Pschorr Oktoberfest) describes its own fest as "brewed with natural Spring Water, caramelized Barley,"

and another .."Gordon Biersch Märzen accentuates the flavors of the dark roasted imported malted barley and exhibits a caramel malt aftertaste"

hmm. I might just contact BJCP and ask them to clarify - I know, BJCP is not the bible, just brew what you like, but really, very strange!

There are often times differences between how US brewers talk about thinks and how german brewers talk about things translated into English. I don't think there is anything in Spaten Marzen that we would call roasted malt. I think they call vienna or munich roasted because, well, it is (just not very much).

Historically, marzen would have been 100% vienna, decoction, long boil. Modern breweries who don't want to do decoctions or boils will use melanoiden, caravienna and caramunich, which were developed to replace decoction and long boils.

I think what the BJCP guidelines is getting at (note it mentions caramel malt in the ingredients) is that the beer shouldn't have the caramel character of an american or english amber beer. Most of the character is toasted type character and caramel malts are used judiciously.

Many beers entered as 3B in competitions have far more caramel character than GB or Hacker-Pschorr.

[craigevo]

Yes, you may be right about the translation being a bit out on the german websites- but i didnt realise Dan Gordon or his company was German.

He certainly must be a magician, cos he can make a beer that 'accentuates' caramel and roast flavours whilst at the same time making them not 'noticable' ! LOL

Maybe its just marketing jingoism. I like a bit of cara in my fests so to hell with BJCP.

[tylercipriani]

I don't think anything is getting lost in translation from German - at least not in the case of Gordon Biersch - I think the problem is marketing people who don't know malt. If you read the quote from the Gordon Biersch website in its entirety you see what I believe is the key phrase, "using dark roasted Munich and caramelized Munich". I think marketing people see "Dark" and think "roasty" and they see "caramunich" and think "caramel" when in reality these flavors should be very restrained in the finished beer.

IMO, Ofest should be richly malty without being cloying and sweet and finish dry with a medium toasty flavor. That's Ofest magic, baby.

Most single infusion Ofest recipes I've seen use dark munich malt with vienna malt or dark munich with caramunich and munich. Alternately, you could just go 100% Vienna with a couple decoctions. Actually, the next beer I'm going to brew will employ the pseudo decoction method that Jeff Renner wrote about in Zymurgy a few months back - that could be another way to go w/100% Vienna.