Modifying a recipe for my second extract batch

[mjaskula]

Hi I'm new to the forum and new to home brewing. I'm extract brewing using kits prepared by my local homebrew shop. My first batch was a MagicHat #9 clone, and it came out fine, but a little under carbonated. For my second batch I have another #9 kit, but I'm modifying it to make something different.

Here's the #9 clone recipe:

-0.5lb Carmel 60L grain (steeped)
-6lb Gold DME
-2oz Aurora hops (7%) boiling (60 min)
-Danstar-Windsor Dry ale yeast
-2oz apricot extract

here's my changes:

-additional 3lb. Dark DME
-add Norther Brewer Hops (30min)
-add Willamette hops (1min)
-forget the apricot extract

My question is: How do I know what style this beer will most likely become? Any guesses?

Thanks for the help. love all the info available here.

~matt j

[EagleDude]

Matt,

I'm new to the forum also ... and haven't brewed an extract beer for quite some time. To answer your extract question, I have no idea what "Style" of beer that would turn out to be.

I do, however, have a database that helps me with basic calculations when designing all-grain batches. Assuming I made the right conversions for extract, the first beer was ~50 original gravity (OG), with ~62 IBU, and, assuming a final gravity of 1.012, was ~5% alcohol. Are these numbers close at all? If they are, your changes should result in a ~76 OG and a 8.4% beer. If you keep the Aurora hops and add 1oz of Norther Brewer and Willamette each, your IBU's will increase to ~83. If the Northern Brewer and Willamette are replacing the Aurora, the IBU would be expected to be ~27 IBU's.

Either way, you will end up with a darker, higher alcohol, and depending on hop schedule, a much hoppier or less hoppier beer ... Hope this helps.

Let me know if these calculations are anywhere close ...

Eagle Dude

[mjaskula]

Yeah, that's what I'm going for, a little darker and maltier and more hop flavor and aroma. I just don't know what to call it. What's a #9 without the apricot? A pale ale? An amber ale?

As for the numbers I had 1.066 OG, 1.024 FG, 5.6% ABV, 24.4 IBU. (I'm sure that these numbers are fairly inaccurate for my first batch). The IBUs are lower because I actually saved some for a 10 min addition.

I guess I just wait and see how it turns out?

~matt j

[mudhut]

I'm a regular extract brewer which is pretty rare on this forum, I think. Been brewing that way for years. Here are my thoughts, feel free to ignore them.

I stay away from dark LME or DME. If I want to add more color or a particular flavor I prefer to use steeping grains. In my experience, dark DME will add to the color of the beer, but not necessarily flavor. Steeping grain offers more control. I stick to Pale, Golden, Munich, or Pilsner extracts.

If you are doing a partial boil, then I would recommend adding half of the extract at the 15 min mark, rather than all in at 60. This will allow better utilization of the hops, and reduce the milliard reactions (which darken and add flavors). On the other hand, you might be going for these results.

When mixing different varieties of hops, I try to mix hops that work well together-usually from the same or similar families. Not familiar with Aurora, or if you considered this. NB and Willamette should be a good mix.

With 82 IBUs and 1076 original gravity, you are probably making an double IPA. It will be on the dark side of the style. With a big beer like this it would be good to pitch 14g of yeast. Not sure how much is in your packet. Try to keep the temp as steady as possible.

The great thing about homebrewing is the freedom to experiment and make what you want to make. You will probably turn out something good...but very different from the #9.

What kind of beer would you like to make?

I would highly reccomend reading How to Brew, by John Palmer. Wish I had read it first. Its better to buy it, but to get started, an older edition is online at: http://www.howtobrew.com/

Hope that this is helpful.

-Judd

[mjaskula]

Thanks guys, this is great advice. I'll let you know how it turns out.

~matt j

[mudhut]

I'd like to hear what it turns out like and if the dark DME adds some different malt flavors. Also, with a beer this strong, don't pass judgement right away, you gotta be patient. Stronger beers improve with age. Stick a some bottles away for 9mo to a year and see how it progresses.

[FloaterFiend]

Morning,

I am an extract brewer as well, and while I haven't had Magic Hat # 9, I found this thread to be fairly interesting. I did, however, listen to the CYBI episode - not that it matters that much.

Regarding adding LME at different periods in the boil, I have noticed that people typically come from different camps or schools of thought - possibly driven by their homebrew supply shops. While most literature that I have read, Papazian, Palmer, etc., mentions adding LME at 15 minutes, I kick it in before I start the boil. Obviously this next thought is TOTALLY subjective - I dunno that I typically experience either color / flavor variations in my beers. I also think I get decent hop utilization, and have been pretty satisfied with my process and results. I would be curious how many Exctract brewers (we gotta stick together) prefer to go the 15 minute route, instead.

Just my $.02.

[mudhut]

When I first started (and for many years of brewing) I added all the malt at the beginning of the boil. Always got that extract twang. Then I tried adding half of the extract at the 15 min mark I didn't get it and it came out lighter--but thats just comparing one brew to another (and not in a blind taste test) and then I started making more changes to my process...I've learned to get better attenuation by controlling temps and using a starter, which could also contribute to the twang. I also tweak my recipes to sometimes add dextrose to dry out the beer to get the final gravity that I'm shooting for depending on the style and type of malt extract used. I cannot say with absolute objective certainty that the late extract that stopped that flavor. The best solution (according to Jamil and others) is to have a full boil--then there should be no need for a late addition. One of these days I'll get one of those monster kettles.

I agree that it is much easier (and faster) to add extract before the boil, as the water is getting warm, especially with DME as it tends to clump up in the boil.

I once brought this up with my grumpy old homebrew shop owner and he warned me that it would stale the beer quickly since the extract didn't get a chance to go through a hot break. I call BS, as the exact already went through a hot break in its production. Anyway, I have several beers that have been tasty after 3 years and I couldn't detect any off flavors. Other potential drawbacks I've heard or thought about is that it can stop the boil thereby effecting hop utilization, and that it might not get sterilized all the way. But I do the same with my wort chiller and I've never had an infection since I've started late additions. Anyway I'd like to hear any other reasons +/- for the 15 min route...



-Judd