making sours

[Bellmer]

should i make a starter if i'm using dregs? or just toss em in?

tom

I'd like to know the correct answer to this also. I'm thinking that you can't make a starter for a bacterial culture, or if you did it would take months to develop?? I think just pitch directly into the primary is the normal method.

The other question. What dregs? I've been drinking Rodenbach and a couple of different Flanders style beers and haven't noticed any dregs in the bottles. If you read my Chaos Brewing thread in the Recipes and Styles section, I poured the whole bottle into the primary hoping something was still alive in the bottle. I also dumped a vile of White Labs "Sour Mix I" into the primary also. I'm sure my experiment in the basement is a template for how NOT to do a sour ale but I'm having fun so it's all good.

To answer these, I've seen lots of people who pitch dregs into a starter and build that up first. However, I know as many or more who just pitch it in (myself included). My vote for what to pitch in is to pitch what you like. The more you like it, the more you pitch. My first sour I pitched the dregs from a La Roja, an Orval, and a Rodenbach. So, it should have plenty of variety to choose from. That's the other beauty of pitching multiple things; you know you're getting a wide variety of different straings of bacteria and wild yeast, whereas things like the "Sour Mix" and even the "Roeselare Blend" aren't as complex as the ones the breweries use themselves (though they are pretty close).

I agree with the maltodextrin comment. There is a comment somewhere in the sour section of Jamil's book about one of his friends who does that. I would imagine the same thing would work with Lactose.

Alternatively, if you want to make sure there is food for the beasties, use a less attenuative strain like scottish ale or one of the english ales.

Most of all, I would say have the balls to experiment. That is the best way to learn, and even if Jamil or someone else that is an expert tells us the perfect way to make something, it isn't going to be the same when we do it. Try a bunch of different things and figure out what works best for you.

[Tom from Raleigh]

As far as starters, I made 4 liters of starter wort from extract and split it between two vessels. I pitched the last half inch of liquid from a few brett beers such as Avery 15, some saison or other and a Cantillon into one and pitched the dregs of 3 or 4 small Cantillons into the other. Both starters started to ferment at room temp. I waited a few weeks due to scheduling and pitched one into each beer on brewday.

For me, making starters is a little easier, because I can add the dregs to a starter over time and then pitch the whole thing on brewday, but you could just as easily pitch the dregs into primary without a starter by pouring the dregs in fermenter. Remember, one reason to make a starter in the first place is so the brewer's yeast out competes the bugs. Since you're introducing bugs, a starter really isn't necessary.

What dregs to pitch? Go to your favorite beer store and buy some sours. Figure out what you like. If you don't like the beer, don't put it in the wort. To get the best dregs, chill them standing vertically, not on their sides. If you're going to brew a batch of the stuff, you should make it to suit your taste.

Bellmer, WL Sour Mix 1 is their version of the Flanders yeast.

[wezil]

Rodenbach is filtered, and possibly pasturized these days.

Brad