Flanders Red techniques

[PhillyBrewer]

When do the bugs stop working? When you chill the beer after kegging/bottling? Also, if you have a sour on draft, should you keep a set of draft lines solely for sours?

[brewinhard]

I do think you would want a separate line for your draft sours. The bugs will slow down their metabolism almost to a standstill if cold conditioned for an extended period of time. So as you said, kegging and in the fridge when the beer tastes right to you. I always give mine more time than expected b/c they always seem to take longer than I want them too. But you are better off letting them age the right way instead of packaging them early only to find out they are not sour or acidic enough for your tastes.

[PhillyBrewer]

I've been thinking a lot about Jamil's Flanders Red technique. From what I gather, he suggests:
- for a less sour beer, ferment with a neutral yeast first and then pitch the Roesalare or
- for a sour beer comparable to Rodenbach Grand Cru, pitch the Roeselare from the gate.

I was just thinking... if you want a less sour beer, could you pitch the Roesalare from the start and just keg it sooner than later? Besides (hopefully) being able to dial your sourness in to your taste, it would be done much more quickly. No?

[brewinhard]

Many people do not give the Rosealare blend its ample time to reach its peak and package too soon. According to WY, the blend takes 18 mos to reach its maturity in sourness. I have mostly pitched the Roselare into the primary but do have a Flanders Brown with US-O5 for primary and Roselare in secondary. If you are interested in brewing sour beers then I really don't think using the Roselare in primary will make a too sour beer for you. If it becomes that way, then simply make another batch with neutral yeast for blending.

[PhillyBrewer]

Perhaps I'll just have to make 10 gallons and split the batch: one primary-ing with a neutral yeast and one pitching Roesalare directly!

One last question. I've read numerous descriptions, but I'm still kinda of unclear of the exactly answer. How does an oud bruin (Jamil's BCS recipe for example) compare to a flanders red (Rodenbach Grand Cru for example)?

[MikeB]

I've been looking at the Lambic book from the Classic Beer Styles Series and it concurs with what brewinhard is saying about the long fermantation process for sour beers like Flanders Red and Lambic. It talks about how different yeast and bacteria work at different time periods, with one taking over for the other over the course of a year or so. Brett apparently does not kick in until about 6-9 months into fermentation. I would let it sit for as long as you can possible stand it.

I have a question about whether I should pull my Flanders Red (~ 3 weeks into fermentation) off the yeast cake after a short period or just let it sit for an entire year on the Roeselaire mix. What have others here done? I'm inclined to just let it sit on the yeast cake for a year.

[herbaljoe]

I've been looking at the Lambic book from the Classic Beer Styles Series and it concurs with what brewinhard is saying about the long fermantation process for sour beers like Flanders Red and Lambic. It talks about how different yeast and bacteria work at different time periods, with one taking over for the other over the course of a year or so. Brett apparently does not kick in until about 6-9 months into fermentation. I would let it sit for as long as you can possible stand it.

I have a question about whether I should pull my Flanders Red (~ 3 weeks into fermentation) off the yeast cake after a short period or just let it sit for an entire year on the Roeselaire mix. What have others here done? I'm inclined to just let it sit on the yeast cake for a year.

I'd pull it off after a month or so. Autolysis may not be as great a risk as once believed but I do think you'll get some funky off flavors from that large slug of yeast sitting at the bottom of your beer for a year or more. Besides, racking it off won't do any harm... the bugs will still do their thing.

[MikeB]

Thanks Ben - This is the first beer where we've intensionally added bugs, so I just wasn't sure if racking it to a secondary would bring things to a halt. I think when I rack it I'll add some oak cubes and then let the bugs do their magic. Looks like this weekend I'm buying a new racking cane, tubing...