Port like beer

[Pharmbrewer]

Any one ever brew the Port like beer that mosher talks about in radical brewing? If so how did it come out? Is it really "Port like"?

Thanks,
Dan

[Joe'Bronco]

Any one ever brew the Port like beer that mosher talks about in radical brewing? If so how did it come out? Is it really "Port like"?

Thanks,
Dan

I would think that it would taste like highly oxidized beer beer with brandy. But since Grapes = Brandy wouldn't Barley = Everclear? So a highly oxidized, Everclear beer mix... Oxidized beer tends to taste "sherry" like. Sherry and Port are very similar with port being MUCH sweeter. I feel it may be easier to get a madeira style beer than a port style as the yeast is what gives it its character.

Intresting concept...

[Pharmbrewer]

I would think that it would taste like highly oxidized beer beer with brandy. But since Grapes = Brandy wouldn't Barley = Everclear? So a highly oxidized, Everclear beer mix... Oxidized beer tends to taste "sherry" like. Sherry and Port are very similar with port being MUCH sweeter. I feel it may be easier to get a madeira style beer than a port style as the yeast is what gives it its character.

Intresting concept...

I think Mosher tries to address the sweetness in the mash. He talks about doing a step mash at 122, 133 and then up to 167. As for yeast he recomends using a sherry yeast. There is also a substantial amount of alcohol added during the fermentation. I believe he recomends whisky or vodka. I've thought about ice distilling some sac mead I made and adding that instead just to keep the whole thing "home brewed". I think this beer would also require an extensive amount of aging.

[Joe'Bronco]

I didnt listen to Chad's podcast. So this if from my wine/port making experience.

A port yeast will give a better "port" style taste over the more oxidized and less sweet sherry. Mashing low will help with unfermented sugars and mouthfeel. I like that. The concept of using brandy in the wine is because it lets the grape juice "marry" the Brandy as they are both from grapes. Grain style is the way to go.

Commercial wineries use distilled wine in the upwards of 150proof and call that brandy. Its closer to Everclear. But because they come from the same plant they blend well together. The idea of "ice distilling" is a bad one, a legal but bad idea. You cant clear the methanol and separate the heads and tails out of a batch of ice hooch. Youre going to add too many fusel oils and off flavors. Stick to high strength Corn or wheat based booze. Of if you have any friends in New Zealand have them ferment out an old oxidized batch of beer and give you the hearts of the run.

Racking over cherries and adding oak is a must and is no diffrent than adding oak and cherries to a porter or stout. The chocolate part ports have, you can get from upping the choclate malt to around 3/4 - 1lbs in a 5gallon batch. The tricky part is going to be color and fermentation temps. Getting the Purple red color may have to come from an addition of grape juice (as DFH does in there Noble Rot) and fermentation temps should be higher as thats where the "sherry & Port" yeast thrive...

Lot to think about here...

I would think that it would taste like highly oxidized beer beer with brandy. But since Grapes = Brandy wouldn't Barley = Everclear? So a highly oxidized, Everclear beer mix... Oxidized beer tends to taste "sherry" like. Sherry and Port are very similar with port being MUCH sweeter. I feel it may be easier to get a madeira style beer than a port style as the yeast is what gives it its character.

Intresting concept...

I think Mosher tries to address the sweetness in the mash. He talks about doing a step mash at 122, 133 and then up to 167. As for yeast he recomends using a sherry yeast. There is also a substantial amount of alcohol added during the fermentation. I believe he recomends whisky or vodka. I've thought about ice distilling some sac mead I made and adding that instead just to keep the whole thing "home brewed". I think this beer would also require an extensive amount of aging.

[Pharmbrewer]

Definately like the idea of cherries and the oak is a given. So what temps do you run port yeast at? Wyeast lists 60-90F. Thants a pretty big range. I believe mosher recomends 75 for the sherry yeast in his book.

The grape juice is a thought. I guess the question is at what point are you making a unique port like beer and when are you just trying to make port wine with some grain ingredients.

What about Hops? I figure you would want to keep them to an absolute minimum in order to get the sweetness. Do you think using aged hops like in a lambic is necissary? or what about no hops at all?

Thanks for the tip on the ice distilling. What do you think about a decent Scotch? Got to watch the price on that one though. Don't want to spend too much money on an experiment.

This is getting very interesting...
Dan

[Joe'Bronco]

Definately like the idea of cherries and the oak is a given. So what temps do you run port yeast at? Wyeast lists 60-90F. Thants a pretty big range. I believe mosher recomends 75 for the sherry yeast in his book.

The grape juice is a thought. I guess the question is at what point are you making a unique port like beer and when are you just trying to make port wine with some grain ingredients.

What about Hops? I figure you would want to keep them to an absolute minimum in order to get the sweetness. Do you think using aged hops like in a lambic is necissary? or what about no hops at all?

Thanks for the tip on the ice distilling. What do you think about a decent Scotch? Got to watch the price on that one though. Don't want to spend too much money on an experiment.

This is getting very interesting...
Dan

Scotch? I have a better idea... Drink the scotch while your port style beer is ageing
Whiskey and Brandy would be a good mixture. Maby 2 parts whiskey, 1 part brandy. You want the brandy flavor in the beer as that is a key in all ports.

Adding the grape must i think should be done in secondary AFTER the booze is added. That way they yeast wont eat all the sugars and leave a bit of the sweetness behind. Even adding condensed Pure grape juice from the store would work.

- Hop's - A few options, have to have hops to be called a beer.
Mount Hood - I think the Spicy and earthy tones will go well with the style
Nelson - Grape like aroma and flavor. Im leaning more toward this hop. Not really that bitter, but aroma can really help with the overall beer.
Saaz - with only 2-3% alpha and a slight spiciness. Its a good candidate.

[Pharmbrewer]

So what do you think of this;

Barley wine grist. Bitter with something clean like magnum and use the nelson for late additions, IBU's on the low end for the style. Ferment with port yeast at 75ish untill gravity hits 1.020ish Add whiskey/bourbon, cherries and grape juice, let age for a month or so on cherries then rack to secondary with oak cubes that have been soaked in a port, plug the carboy up with a dowel to simulate barrel ageing, bottle after a year and leave it alone for as long as i can stand it.