Re: If you were going to Americanize a European style....

Fri May 08, 2009 3:46 pm

Here's what I've come up with, and how I got there:

Problem: Just as American Pale Ale is distinct from English Pale Ale, and American IPA is distinct from English IPA, an American Red Ale should be distinct from Irish Red Ale.

Discussion: It is tempting to use Pasquinelli's IRA recipe, swap the Marris Otter for American 2 row, pitch in some Magnum, Cascade and/or Amarillo, use WLP-001 and call it good, but what I decided to do is analyze the actual difference between the European and the American styles, and see if I can pull a gestalt rabbit out of this hat. From "Brewing Classic Styles":

EPA: Balanced but firm hop bitterness.
Low hop character.
A touch of fermentation character.
Some malt character in the aroma
Often biscuit-like w/ touch of caramel.
Yeast attenuates ~ 70% w/ fair amount of esters.
Do not overhop, particularly aroma hops.

APA: Fresh ingredients.
Balanced hop bitterness and malt sweetness.
Avoid harsh hop bitterness: May be strong, but not harsh.
A fair amount of late hops.
Clean fermentation using neutral ale yeast.
Low carbonation.

E-IPA: Pronounced late hop character.
Fair hop bitterness and flavor.
Balance of early and late hops.
Often less hoppy than APA.
Traditional English hops.
Toasty biscuity malt character.
High attenuation for crisp finish.

A-IPA: High hop bitterness and lots of hop character.
Low malt character. Clean.
Citrusy piney fruity resiny type hops
Little crystal
American 2 row.
Clean neutral ale yeast.

IRA: Balanced with moderate malt character: toasty, caramel.
Deep redish copper color from highly kilned malt adds to dry
finish.
Hop bitterness balanced but dark malts can make it seem more
bitter.
Low hop character.
Use ale yeast that ferments clean at low temps.
Esters are restrained, but some have touch of diacetyl.

ARA: (TBD)

Analysis: What seem to be common differences between the American and European styles are;

European:
Biscuit/toasty/caramel type malts
Low hop bitterness. Low hop character
Yeast produces ester character.
Yeast attenuates low (~70%) e.g. WLP-004

American:
Low malt character (uses very little crystal malt)
High/balanced hop bitterness (not harsh). Pronounced late hop character (Citrusy, piney, fruity, resiny)
Clean fermentation. High attenuation e.g. WLP-001

Conclusion: Swap the Marris Otter for American 2 row, pitch in some Magnum, Cascade and/or Amarillo, use WLP-001 and call it good.

The Torpedo clone uses Magnum, Crystal and Amarillo. That might be a good combo (in reduced proportions of course). The Torpedo is going to hit the can Sunday, so maybe I'll pop one the 16th (brew date for the ARA is the 17th) and see how that turned out.

Field wrote:you could also try to replace some of the pale malt with Paul's Mild Ale malt, 4 SRM with higher dextrins for more body

I use it for American Amber Ales for some of the base malt, gives the malt profile a different base than pale ales/IPAs and then you don't need as much crystal

I'm going to look into that, because it definitely appears that I want to use little or no crystal. Thanks for the suggestion.

Charlie
"Yes officer, I know that I smell like beer. I'm not drinking it, I'm wearing it!"
Charlie
 
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Re: If you were going to Americanize a European style....

Fri May 08, 2009 10:39 pm

i did an imperial red where i only used 4 oz of crystal 40L. i got most of my color from 1lb of melanoidin and 2oz of carafa III. It had that nice deep red color...around 17 SRM

i think you could take the ARA in a number of directions.

to still maintain a link to the IRA but with american ingredients you could use willamettes instead of fuggles. maybe use a fruitier less attenuating american yeast like WLP041 Pacific Ale/Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale or WLP051 Cali Ale V/Wyeast 1272 American Ale II that has similar characteristics to the english yeasts

or maybe take it in a completely american direction by using the hops we enjoy in our IPAs, but maybe just make it more of a late hop addition for hop character and low bitterness. anything from nuggets to simcoe to columbus and so on. without using the crystal malt you wont get that iced tea character that you get from citrusy hops plus caramel malt flavor.

ive been playing around with ideas much like you have in making traditional belgian, german, and english beers with a distinct west coast twist. ill be following this thread to see where people take it
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Re: If you were going to Americanize a European style....

Fri May 15, 2009 6:29 pm

Considering the input I have received (and the fact that I forgot to make the starter two days ago!), I have postponed brew date until next Sunday. I'll keep y'all posted.

Charlie
"Yes officer, I know that I smell like beer. I'm not drinking it, I'm wearing it!"
Charlie
 
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Location: Stonewall, LA (near scenic Highway 171)

Re: If you were going to Americanize a European style....

Sat May 16, 2009 3:43 am

if you americanize an Irish red ale by increasing the hop profile, aren't you going to end up with a slightly lighter [in color] version of an american brown ale?

irish red ale SRM = 9-18
american brown SRM = 18-35

the colors don't really overlap, color can be a little tricky sometimes.


I applaud your creativity :pop
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