Beer Forum

I brewed a Belgian triple last year using Wyeast 3864 Canadian/Belgian (Unibroue strain) and it was terribly phenolic, almost undrinkable. I mean above and beyond what Belgian beers should be. I've since figured out that there were multiple culprits for this off flavor: 1) I used bleach to sanitize and the derived chlorophenols are more apparent than the natural phenols created by the yeast and 2) I fermented it at a high temp (~80F). I brewed a dubbel this past fall and used Wyeast 3787 (Westmalle strain) fermented around 68F. I've also switched to iodophor sanitizer. This brew turned out quite tasty and flavorful but it went to the other end of the spectrum and definitely lacked the Belgian phenols that I think of characteristic to Belgian beer. I'm going to try brewing a belgian dubbel once again and I'm trying to decide what yeast to use this time. I think I've narrowed it down to Wyeast 1214 (Chimay) and Wyeast 3522 (La Chouffe). I want SOME phenols but not too overwhelming, and I'd rather err on the side of low phenols than too much phenolic flavor like my first batch. I don't have the ability for fine temperature control but I can ferment at roughly 60F, 65F, or 70F depending on where the carboy is placed in my house. Opinions?

I always vote "No Pants".

That said, why not use them both? Split the batch and do both yeasts. If you can't do this, or don't want to, just pick one. I'm sure they will both do nicely. Start around 65f and put the carboy in your 70f spot. Let the fermentation temp rise on it's own. Also, pitch a healthy amount of yeast. You are probably getting the phenols from excessive yeast growth, so either grow up a decent starter (see mrmalty.com) or pitch 2 or 3 packs.

Good Luck!

Rob

I can only tell you my experiences with 3787 & 3522.

Ive found them both to ferment fairly clean & plain at 18-22 degC. The 3522 would be the cleaner of the 2.

I aim for 24-27 degC for both & prefer the 3787.

I have to chime in with no pants and White Labs yeast not Wyeast.


HH

I'm glad (and actually a little disturbed) that so many people are brewing with no pants. This poll has been eye-opening indeed.

Homegrown Hops wrote:I have to chime in with no pants and White Labs yeast not Wyeast.

I'm a little partial to Wyeast. The first beer I brewed was made with Wyeast and I got accustomed to using the smack pack and never felt the need to change to White Labs.

Speyedr wrote:Also, pitch a healthy amount of yeast. You are probably getting the phenols from excessive yeast growth, so either grow up a decent starter (see mrmalty.com) or pitch 2 or 3 packs.

I have made a starter for all the Belgians I make. Because of the higher OG, I definitely agree that making a starter is necessary. The 3864 made a fantastic 1qt starter that smelled great but then it went super-phenolic in the primary. Maybe I needed a larger starter.
It sounds like 3787 and 3522 are safely fermented at higher temps without too much phenol production. Since I already tried 3787 (though at a low temp), I decided to try the 3522 and will ferment at ~70F. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Spidey wrote:I have made a starter for all the Belgians I make. Because of the higher OG, I definitely agree that making a starter is necessary. The 3864 made a fantastic 1qt starter that smelled great but then it went super-phenolic in the primary. Maybe I needed a larger starter.
It sounds like 3787 and 3522 are safely fermented at higher temps without too much phenol production. Since I already tried 3787 (though at a low temp), I decided to try the 3522 and will ferment at ~70F. I'll let you know how it turns out.

If you are only making a quart starter for a high gravity Belgian then you're probably stressing out the yeast. Check out the pitching rate calculator and starter info on http://www.mrmalty.com for proper pitching rates based on gravity, starter method, age of yeast, etc. Stressing out yeast is a surefire way to get those esters on crack.