Really Struggling with Water Chemistry

[keelanfish]

Thanks for the replies. I will check out the homebrewtalk link as soon as I get home tonight...my work blocks that site for some reason . So I guess I should invest in a pH meter and tweaking mash pH. For a Kolsch, should I also at least bring up the Chloride to Sulfate Ratio from the base water value of 0.75 to enhance the maltiness? I would probably do this by adding Calcium Chloride to the mash which would also help lower my mash pH. I'm also concerned about adding too much lactic acid. Any input as to what are reasonable limits for a 6 gallon batch?

[Quin]

Its going to be a very small amount since your alkalinity is so low, I would just use acidulated malt at 3-4% to get you to a pH of 5.4. Otherwise you would have to "titrate" to your desired pH.

My water system uses well water with shit-ton loads of minerals and alkalinity. I don't have my notes with me, but I think I'm using somewhere around 10 mL of lactic acid to get around 5.4.

[keelanfish]

According to the EZ spreadsheet, if I add no salts to the mash then I will have an estimated room temp pH of 5.75 which is on the high end of Palmer's suggested range of 5.4 to 5.8. So to center it to 5.6, the spreadsheet says I need to add 1.7 ml of Lactic Acid. Is this amount going to be perceptible in taste? It doesn't sound like it if you're adding 10 ml.

As I understand it, it will take some time for the mash pH to stabilize. From a practical standpoint when titrating to hit a specific pH, how much time do I have? If the calcs say to add 1.7, would you go in a little low, say 1.5 and then add more if needed or would you start right on it? If for some reason, I over shoot and get a mash pH that is too low, is there a way to adjust up that is effective?

I know through trial and error I'll get a handle on how my water and the recipies that I brew behave, I just want to hit it reasonably close this time due to the competitions and the tight schedule.

[ajdelange]

So, first batch is going to be a Kolsch (JZ Fruh from BCS).

I've input the following information into the EZ Water Calculator spreadsheet:

Base Water - Ca 9 ppm Mg 2 ppm Na 9 ppm Cl 9 ppm SO4 12 ppm HCO3 16 ppm

Great water for a Kölsch but I think you'll like the beer better if you add a few grams (about 5 i.e. 1 tsp) of calcium chloride to the 9 gallons water. You are doing this for the chloride - not the calcium - but the calcium will have benefit too.

Pilsner Malt - 10 lbs
Vienna Malt - 0.5 lbs

Don't know what the Vienna is in there for but Kölsch is usually straight Pils malt. You want the lightest color you can get and that means the palest grains available.

This gives the result that without doing any water adjustments, the Effective Alkalinity (CaCO3 ppm) will be 13, the Residual Alkalinity is 6, the Estimated Room-Temp Mash pH will be 5.75, and that my Chloride to Sulfate Ratio will be 0.75.

EZ seems to give pretty good mash predictions. That should be about where your mash pH will land. But you will like the result better if you can get it down to 5.55 or so. To do that add 2% acidulated malt (0.2 lbs). This not only puts the mash pH where it belongs but adds subtle complexity to the beer flavor.

I realize that the mash pH is too high and that the Chloride to Sulfate Ratio is low and will therefore enhance bitterness, which is not what I want for this style of beer.

Forget about ratios - they are pretty meaningless when brewing continental styles. The chloride is lower than you want, independent of the sulfate, and could use a boost. That's what the 5 grams of calcium chloride are for. With sulfate at the level it is you needent worry about excess hop bitterness (unless you use a high alpha hop). Instead use noble hops (but not Saaz - my last Kölsch has this wonderful spicey nose which is ordinarily great but not for a Kölsch). Sulfate this low makes the premium you pay for them a good investment. Most important of all: use a Kölsch yeast strain.

[ajdelange]

According to the EZ spreadsheet, if I add no salts to the mash then I will have an estimated room temp pH of 5.75 which is on the high end of Palmer's suggested range of 5.4 to 5.8. So to center it to 5.6, the spreadsheet says I need to add 1.7 ml of Lactic Acid. Is this amount going to be perceptible in taste? It doesn't sound like it if you're adding 10 ml.

Too many crossing over posts here. The amount of lactic you need should not be enough to send you too low. But I do recommend sauermalz because it is, IMO, harder to screw up with it (and there is the added flavor enhancement as well). 2% should do it for you. In a 10 lbs grist that's 0.2 lbs ~ 3.2 Oz.

As I understand it, it will take some time for the mash pH to stabilize. From a practical standpoint when titrating to hit a specific pH, how much time do I have? If the calcs say to add 1.7, would you go in a little low, say 1.5 and then add more if needed or would you start right on it?

When sauermalz is being used it does take some time for the pH to stabilize - 15 to 20 minutes. The initial reading can be alarmingly low but should start to drop pretty quickly.

You shouldn't have to titrate. Sauermalz should get you pretty close the first time. If you would like to verify that mash a pound of ground Pils malt with .02 lbs (.32 Oz) sauermalz and check the pH of that test mash over time until it is stablized.

If for some reason, I over shoot and get a mash pH that is too low, is there a way to adjust up that is effective?

That shouldn't happen with sauermalz but if it does then adding pickling lime is probably the most effective, safest and fastest way to save the day. Add it in small amounts.

[keelanfish]

Thanks for the information AJ. I read the first 10 pages or so of the water primer over at HBT last night and after reading, I'm on board! One more question before this weekend's brewing...I'm also brewing a Bavarian Weizen. Typical recipe: 50% wheat malt, 50% pilsner malt, minimal Hallertau Hops, WLP 300 Hefeweizen Yeast and 5% abv. From the primer, I think you would recommend the same treatment as on the Kolsch, but just wanted to make sure.

[ajdelange]

Yes, that's how I do Weizen.

Amazing how simple water treatment can be with the proper tools (a pH meter and some buffers).

If you have been fiddling around with NUBWS you certainly appreciate that the Primer represents an approach to water that is about as opposite to the NUBWS approach as can be.

[keelanfish]

Yeah, I've been fooling around with NUBWS and at this time with the level of my understanding, "fooling around" is an overstatement. I don't like flying blind. I'm going to continue studying up on the related chemistry involved and once I feel I've at least got a working knowledge of the subject, then I'll revisit brewing water chemistry.

Thanks again for all your advice. After this weekend I'll be posting again with some additional questions about two brews for the next weekend.