late addition malt in extract brewing and hop harshness

[Hoont]

I make a lot of pale ale and IPAs and almost always split my malt extract; roughly half goes in at the beginning of the boil and the other half in the last 15 minutes. I do this to get the full affect of the hops. But I often get a harshness to the hops that I don't care for...

For example, I brewed a very similar version of 'Pliny the Toddler' from the 11/2011 Zymurgy on 11/29:

Steeped for 30 min: 1lb carapils, 4oz munich, 3oz crystal 40, 2oz crystal 120
3.5 lb pilsner malt @ 60min
.5oz warrior @ 60 min
3 lb pilsner malt @ 15 min
.75oz columbus @ 10 min
.75oz centennial @ 10 min
1oz cascade @ 1 min
repitched wyeast american ale

I am tasting it for the first time tonight, 12/22 and it just has a bit of harshness, disguising itself as bitterness ( at least thats my impression). Curious if the other extract brewers out there split their malt addition on hoppy PAs and IPAs and also if in general, if the concensus feels this could be contributing to the harshness?

Any suggestions/observations welcome!

[beggarstown brewer]

I did the same thing when working with extract, and still recommend it generally. If you're getting harshness, it could have to do with the thinner sugar concentration in the boil fucking with your utilization rates... just a guess there. Have you tried bailing on the 60 minute addition? In hoppy beers you can get a smoother bitterness by adding the whole hop load over the last 30. It takes considerably more hops to balance your beer but you get a nice character and a ton of flavor and aroma withot having to dry hop. Try it! Just use your software to figure out how much more you'll need to get your IBU load and figure big additions at 30, 20, 10 and flameout. It'll cost you more dough but might be worth your while.

-beggar

[Afterlab]

When I did extract I did split my extract additions mostly to lower my melanoidin formation during the boil.

I have always found Warrior to be an excellent choice for a mild bittering flavor as a 60 or 90 minute addition. With its relatively low Total Oil Level (1.0 — 2.0 mls/100), Co-Humolone Level (24 — 26% of alpha acid) and considering you are only using .5 oz at 60 minutes, I'm not so sure that is your biggest culprit. Even though it isn't used as your bittering hop Columbus comes across as the most intense of the hops you are using.

I think it may have more to do with your Calcium to Sulfate ratio in your water. While I don't want to get in-depth about Water Chemistry, I would suggest for your next batch to split your water 50% Distilled and 50% Tap. You may have too many PPM of Sulfates in your water which will accentuate unwanted bitterness. Since water is such a large part of the beer I think experimenting with it will give you the most notable impact.

http://www.hopunion.com/assets/file/Variety%20Book%20(2).pdf

[Hoont]

Thanks for the suggestions... I'll do some experimenting over the next few batches!

[anday6]

Back when I was still doing extract, I had the same problem with sharp bitterness. Once I got a water report I knew why. My local water is already pretty high in sulfates and as has been said by doc, jamil and palmer, the extract has already been mashed with it's own salts.
Start with using half distilled water and things will definately smooth out and if you want more flavor than bitterness, late hopping is perfect for that.

Good luck and good brewing.

[Fugglupagus]

I also split, but I don't do many hoppy beers. Probably doesn't mean much, but I don't get any hop harshness.

I'm curious about your 2nd pilsner addition at 15 min. Any signs of DMS?

[duckmanco]

I never picked up on harshness when doing extract brews, in fact, I found the beers to be less caramel-ey and smoother overall with a better perceived bitterness character than if I added all the extract up front. I would continue to try it and see if some other factors (water chemistry for one) aren't at play.

[brewinhard]

I also split, but I don't do many hoppy beers. Probably doesn't mean much, but I don't get any hop harshness.

I'm curious about your 2nd pilsner addition at 15 min. Any signs of DMS?

I am guessing he meant to write Pilsner DME or LME. If that was the case then he shouldn't see any signs of DMS as that would've been removed during the production of the extract.