knockout hop additions

[BrewBum]

I am sure this has been addressed some where but don't want to take forever to find it.

In listening to the shows I noticed and I know the guys did that the knockout/flame out hop additions were followed by a 30 minute rest by the big guys.

i can't remember what shows this was on and what exactly the response was from the guys. I am curious, does this add more flavor or aroma or both? Is it something we should do if we have a IC as opposed to a CFC?

All previous wisdom was to cool as fast as possible but something in my head says that that seems to be debunked a little during this show on a few episodes.

Help me out please.

[Brewchief]

Noticed the same thing. The last episodes that come to mind are Firestone Walker and Epic. And last I heard, Tasty, who has aways had a very tried-and-true process, seems to be embracing the hot whirlpooling prior to chilling as well (at least when the brewer's process calls for it).

I suspect that the DMS from sitting too hot after boiling may be one of those things possibly overplayed in the past like hot side aeration and secondary fermentation, though I have no scientific proof either way. I cool quickly so I can get done more quickly, but I suppose one can clean up during the whirlpool just the same and have less to do after pitching.

I am going to try a 30 minute whirlpool in my upcoming DIPA just to check this out. Possibly one more improvement to make due to this show!

[BrewBum]

I did a 30 minute whirlpool in the last beer I made so i will see if it has a DMS aroma to it. I hope not.

[bufordsbest]

All previous wisdom was to cool as fast as possible but something in my head says that that seems to be debunked a little during this show on a few episodes.

Help me out please.

i believe the danger zone for infection is not reached until you are sub 180F so assuming you stop the boil and start whirlpooling you should have some time before reaching that temperature.

[Hoser]

Brewbum,

I have done this almost exclusivly in my hoppy beers in attempts to recreate some of Stone's beers, specifically the Arrogant Bastard. If you are looking for the episodes where they discuss the WP hop additions I would start my search there.

At any rate, on the 5 or so beers I have done with WP hop additions I have not noticed any DMS or infection issues. I generally cover the kettle to lock in the flavor and keep as many bugs out as possible. After 20 minutes I run my JZ chiller as I normally would. Personally, I think it adds a lot of aroma and a smoother flavor because it is generally a large charge of hops with a less intense bitterness because the wort is not boiling. Just be aware there will be isomerization of the hops and this will contribute to your overall bitterness. I think the guys have been calculating the IBU contributions to be similar to a hop charge added with 20 minutes left in the boil when constructing the recipe.

I have enjoyed the hoppiness of the beers with the WP additions and they have gone on to get pretty good reviews at the recent competitions I have entered. None of the judges have commented on DMS or infections issues. So to quote Charlie "Relax, don't worry and have a home brew!"

Hoser

[brewinhard]

Brewbum,

I have done this almost exclusivly in my hoppy beers in attempts to recreate some of Stone's beers, specifically the Arrogant Bastard. If you are looking for the episodes where they discuss the WP hop additions I would start my search there.

At any rate, on the 5 or so beers I have done with WP hop additions I have not noticed any DMS or infection issues. I generally cover the kettle to lock in the flavor and keep as many bugs out as possible. After 20 minutes I run my JZ chiller as I normally would. Personally, I think it adds a lot of aroma and a smoother flavor because it is generally a large charge of hops with a less intense bitterness because the wort is not boiling. Just be aware there will be isomerization of the hops and this will contribute to your overall bitterness. I think the guys have been calculating the IBU contributions to be similar to a hop charge added with 20 minutes left in the boil when constructing the recipe.

I have enjoyed the hoppiness of the beers with the WP additions and they have gone on to get pretty good reviews at the recent competitions I have entered. None of the judges have commented on DMS or infections issues. So to quote Charlie "Relax, don't worry and have a home brew!"

Hoser

Comparitively speaking, did you get more intense aroma from doing the WP for 20 minutes or from a 0 minute addition that is quickly cooled?

[AaronWesternNY]

I remember from one of the shows JZ said the precursor of DMS was produced between a certain temp range, like 180-130. Can anyone verify these numbers for us?

If you are whirlpooling at the end of boil you would be above the DMS precursor upper limit, so no DMS later on.

[HoozierDaddy]

They talked about this extensively during the Firestone walker CYBI but I cant remember specifically which one. I distinctly remember it because I relistened to several key spots. They said the hot whirlpool also contributes a good mouthfeel that they thought coudlnt be achieved another way. I think they referred to it as the firestone mouthfeel or something like that.

Matt Brynildson stated that its very important to understand your utilization during this phase. Aside from sending samples to a lab, I think we as homebrewers would have to employ trial and error to figure out utulization. As soon as I can craft my jamil-o-chiller I will be doing this.