Whirlpool Techniques

[RanchCat]

Got a question about whirlpooling in keggles.

I'm starting a project to build a Brutus Ten and I'm not sure if I should incorporate a false bottom or other screening mechanism in the BK. I figure I can just do my standard whirlpool and drain from the side with an "L" fitting after the trub settles like Tasty suggested above but I wanted to see if anyone had any other suggestions or reasons for using a false bottom in their BK. For what it's worth, I primarily use pellet hops but have access to whole as well. I'm guessing the orginal Brutus plans call for a false bottom because he uses whole hops??? not sure

Thanks

RanchCat

[Charlie]

I have 129 all grain batches under my belt. Of that number only one has utilized what a production brewer would call a whirlpool.

My "whirlpool" batch was an attempt to clone Firestone Walker Union Jack on 4/15/12. The clone recipe specified a 30 minute whirlpool before knockout which I executed faithfully. Although I have had excellent results with my APA/IPA technique, and once scored a 46 in IIPA at Bluebonnet (which totally failed to place due to the high volume of entries) this was undoubtedly the worst brew I have ever made! It had zilch hop flavor and aroma other than that of the dry hops, and the bitterness was harsh and disagreeable. I assigned the blame to the 30 minutes the finished wort spent at near boiling temps in whirlpool, and see no other reason for it.

At one time I wished very much to create production brewery conditions in my homebrew system. These days I give thanks that I do not suffer under those limitations!

Charlie

[RanchCat]

I have 129 all grain batches under my belt. Of that number only one has utilized what a production brewer would call a whirlpool.

My "whirlpool" batch was an attempt to clone Firestone Walker Union Jack on 4/15/12. The clone recipe specified a 30 minute whirlpool before knockout which I executed faithfully. Although I have had excellent results with my APA/IPA technique, and once scored a 46 in IIPA at Bluebonnet (which totally failed to place due to the high volume of entries) this was undoubtedly the worst brew I have ever made! It had zilch hop flavor and aroma other than that of the dry hops, and the bitterness was harsh and disagreeable. I assigned the blame to the 30 minutes the finished wort spent at near boiling temps in whirlpool, and see no other reason for it.

At one time I wished very much to create production brewery conditions in my homebrew system. These days I give thanks that I do not suffer under those limitations!

Charlie

Thanks Charlie,

What kind of chiller are you using? I'm planning on using a Blichman Therminator and I'm just worried about clogging it if I don't whirlpool. Are you using anything in particular for trub/hop seperation?

[Charlie]

What kind of chiller are you using? I'm planning on using a Blichman Therminator and I'm just worried about clogging it if I don't whirlpool. Are you using anything in particular for trub/hop seperation?

I use a thermonator with a slotted copper ring in the BK. Most of my hop additions are leaf and they will form a mat over the copper ring and filter out trub. Pellet hops are a problem sometimes.

I do stir after flame out, let it settle a couple of minutes, and then collect the first runnings in a beaker and add them back to the BK which clears the lines.

The problem with my Union Jack clone wasn't the whirlpool, it was the 30 minutes the finished wort sat at near boil temps which isomerized my late additions and overshot my predicted IBU. Perhaps I should have moved the late additions to the whirlpool ???

[RanchCat]

What kind of chiller are you using? I'm planning on using a Blichman Therminator and I'm just worried about clogging it if I don't whirlpool. Are you using anything in particular for trub/hop seperation?

I use a thermonator with a slotted copper ring in the BK. Most of my hop additions are leaf and they will form a mat over the copper ring and filter out trub. Pellet hops are a problem sometimes.

I do stir after flame out, let it settle a couple of minutes, and then collect the first runnings in a beaker and add them back to the BK which clears the lines.

The problem with my Union Jack clone wasn't the whirlpool, it was the 30 minutes the finished wort sat at near boil temps which isomerized my late additions and overshot my predicted IBU. Perhaps I should have moved the late additions to the whirlpool ???

Interesting... I just ordered the Morebeer plate chiller instead of the Blichman, found it on sale on Black Friday. I've used pellet hops in about 95% of my batches and now I'm wondering if I should make the switch to whole leafs to avoid the potential clogging issues. I've been looking at some false bottoms and hopbacks and I'm not convinced that there's anything out there that'll handle the pellet trub well enough...

The search continues...

[Charlie]

Between the slotted copper ring I use on my personal system (with mostly leaf hops) and the false bottom we use with the Sabco V350 at work (with mostly pellet hops) I don't think there is any one best thing. If there is a trick to it at all it is getting the pellet hop mud to settle out, clearing the lines, and then not disturbing the mud bed while racking to the fermentor.

Individual particles of pellet hops will pass through the Thermonator, globs of them will not. Pumping the wort through the Thermonator (as with the V350) does not help at all, as it disturbs the mud bed continuously.

My personal system is arranged to use gravity flow from the BK to the fermentor. I can chill wort with the Thermonator at 1GPM with a 36" fall, and definitely recommend this as a way to avoid getting crud in your plate chiller.

[biertourist]

A properly designed whirlpool kettle with a properly performed whirlpool is DESIGNED for use with hop pellets. This is what most commercial US craft brewers use (whirlpools + pellets).


Some of the issues that have been brought up here really highlight that when you perform a whirlpool you DO need to adjust your late hop additions to avoid just evolving off all those precious oils and continuing to isomerize alpha acids and increase bitterness. You need to think about the amount of time between your last hop additions and when the wort will drop below 140F.

When you switch from a regular boil kettle to a whirlpool kettle it becomes important. If you use an immersion chiller in a whirlpool it's very easy to get the temp down rapidly; below 140F will help with evolving off hop aroma/flavor and isomerizing and it will also help with DMS formation.


By "properly designed whirlpool kettle" I mean that you need to maximize the amount of wort that you move, minimize restrictions and focus on wort velocity on the output; it also means a side pickup. -You WILL lose a lot of wort with a side pickup (about 1 gallon in a keggle).


Personally a good stainless hop spider is very difficult to beat on so many levels, but I really like hop pellets+ whirlpool and whirlpool chilling through a counterflow chiller, too. Whirlpools are for pellets; not whole hops.


Adam