Berliner Weisse Mystery Revealed

[Thirsty Boy]

I blend

*16-17L of neutral wheat beer - fermented with a lager, kolsch or 1272 yeast
*2-3L of 100% brett fermented beer (well 100% orval dregs anyway), probably spare wort from a brew but maybe just extract
*3-5L of pure lactic fermented beer - once again, usually spare from another brew, but maybe a small batch BIAB specifically for the purpose.

Then I have the base, the pure funk and the funky/sour all in separate containers -- blend to taste for a corny keg full.

I will also use pure lactic acid - but only to "tweak" the acidity. The majority of it comes from the lacto ferment.. but if I need to use less of that to get the flavour blend I want and the acidity is too low.. then I will tweak it up with pure acid. To Boring and one dimensional by itself though. Be careful.. a little goes a long way.

TB

[foomench]

I pitch lacto, pedio, and brett; but supplement with pure lactic acid to taste at bottling time. The natural fermentation gives complexity, and the acid brings it to where I want. I didn't know lacto liked such warm temperatures. Maybe if I fermented warmer for a while I could cut back the acid. Oh, and a little sauer malt in the mash helps with the pH. 15 minute boil here.

[brewinhard]

Ray Daniels in "Designing Great Beers" made a suggestion that you just sour a low gravity wheat beer with some lactic acid at kegging or bottling. I tried it once and the results were less than impressive. I tasted it side by side with a bunch of berliner weisse's made properly. My had the right basic taste, but was way too one dimensional. Just on a dare I did enter it into a competition and won a medal. Obviously the judges didn't know crap about a berliner weisse. One even commented on how he liked the brett notes in it.

I mentioned this to Ray last year and he couldn't believe that someone (me) even tried it. I'll try almost anything once.

Wayne

Alright so I will stay away from using husks, unless I find a way to keep it between 90-100 and oxygen free....Where do I get my lacto at? My LHBSS suggested to use a kolsch ale yeast for primary fermentation then buying a lacto slab and adding to the 2ndary.....How do I get my lactobossillis (sp?) in my brew and when?

You definitely don't want to add the lacto to the secondary in this case as it will NOT produce enough sourness. Even with a long aging the sourness will be very unimpressive. Lacto is such a weak bacteria and really needs to feed on the sugars by itself or with an extremely small amount of ale yeast.

[foomench]

And ironically, lacto gives out pretty quickly when the pH drops.

[SacoDeToro]

And ironically, lacto gives out pretty quickly when the pH drops.

True dat. In the long term, Pedio produces much more lactic acid in a sour beer than lactobacillus. It's simply more tolerant to acidic conditions than lacto.

[brewinhard]

And ironically, lacto gives out pretty quickly when the pH drops.

True dat. In the long term, Pedio produces much more lactic acid in a sour beer than lactobacillus. It's simply more tolerant to acidic conditions than lacto.

Ohhhh lacto, the pussy bacteria.

[whoateallthepies]

I did a 2 day sour mash this week. First attempt at a Berliner Weisse, so I have no idea what to expect. Waiting for a chance to grow up my Wyeast 1007 yeast to pitch into this.

[thatguy314]

I had an interesting talk with Scott Vaccarro at Captain Lawrence on Tues night. He doesn't do a Berliner Weisse per se, but he uses a primary lactic fermentation for all of his sour beers. He says pitch a lacto starter first, and monitor the pH. When it starts dropping heavily, then add an active yeast pitch to it. They'll finish out the fermentation and prevent it from getting overly sour. He says this gives him a nice flavor without any of the hastles of using pedio. I think he adds Brett to the secondary of most of his sour beers, but that might not be necessary for something like this.