The infamous "6 Gallon Batch"

[Ozwald]

But just drop the 'i'm a dick and I'm right' routine and let's all just pretend like we don't like flaming each other on the forum. That shit doesn't belong on this or any other homebrew forum.

I'll drink to that.

[IAmRight]

BeerSmith cult members/fanboys = 6

Pencil, paper, and calculator guys =1

Clickity-click, typity-type, cross fingers, kneel for the BeerSmith Poobah guys= 1

[IAmRight]

@iamright - it's obvious anyone who just deals with the errors and makes good beer despite the flaws in the software is a 'fanboy' or in the cult of beersmith.

My issue is not with people who deal with the errors, it is with the guys who dismiss them. It is impossible to discuss any workarounds, or user guides for BeerSmith, that make any mention of BeerSmith having errors or design flaws without a flood of fanboy retaliation. The information about how to use BeerSmith to get the most accurate numbers, or know how to compensate for errors, always get lost in the noise the cult members generate.

Batch spargers, no spargers, BIABers, need to know how to compensate for the numbers BeerSmith generates, since it does not compensate for different SGs properly.
Users who expect the trub loss field to cause BeerSmith to auto-adjust the recipe need to be educated that they need to recalc the 'to the fermenter" Brew House efficiency used by BeerSmith. This is a very common pitfall that traps virtually all new users, and even many experienced users.

A better solution would be for BeerSmith to correct the problems, but until that happens the only logical option is to accept them, and use workarounds.

But just drop the 'i'm a dick and I'm right' routine and let's all just pretend like we don't like flaming each other on the forum. That shit doesn't belong on this or any other homebrew forum.

If you re-read, this started as a mature conversation between me and another poster, until the BeerSmith fanboy propaganda started flooding in, as predicted.

[IAmRight]

From the first fanboy:

I now set all my losses to zero and simply scale "up" the 6 gallon recipes to 7.5 knowing I will leave behind 2 gallons (7.5-2=5.5 to fermentor as JZ intends).

It is humorous you reference JZ, since I believe he is not a fan of BeerSmith's definition of 'to the fermentor' Brew House Eff either because of how it makes recipe sharing confusing.

JZ's intention isn't for you to get 5.5G to the fermentor, it is to specify a recipe based on a 6G post boil KETTLE volume. To convey a recipe with a minimum number of parameters, this is done by providing grain bill, hop schedule, boil time, SG, ..., post boil KETTLE volume, and Brew House Eff ('to the KETTLE'). He really doesn't care how much makes it to your fermenter as long as the qualitative numbers in the KETTLE are correct.

BeerSmith's Redefinitioin of Brew House Eff as 'to the fermentor' adds confusion for obvious reasons. If 'to the fermentor' is actually used as the eff number for recipe sharing, it requires any post boil losses to be conveyed as well.

There is nothing inherently wrong with BeerSmith choosing this definition, it is just a poor design choice. There are other true errors in BeerSmith, which most here seem to prefer to bury their head in the sand rather than learning about them.

[spiderwrangler]

Cult = 7
Fanboy = 17

My point is that your time here has been dismissive and argumentative, and others have responded in kind (no I didn't look to see who threw down first). Your valid points would have much more weight behind them if you came off educational instead. Perhaps once upon a time you were... and then were beat down and jaded by the fanboys who apparently haunt your dreams... try to regain that tone and I can guarantee more people will listen to you. As it is you come across like the guy ranting on a street corner.

[IAmRight]

and then were beat down and jaded by the fanboys who apparently haunt your dreams...

The fanboys spew a bunch of noise, but it is only hurting themselves. I manned up and fought through it to get a serious issue with BeerSmith fixed that affected noob extract brewers. The cult leaders can keep drinking the kool-aid for all I care. I gave up on BeerSmith since the errors are too large at or above 18 gals.

try to regain that tone and I can guarantee more people will listen to you.

It doesn't matter what tone you take trying to make a case for evolution with a creationist. Same goes for trying to explain how to work around a BeerSmith issue with the fanboys. However, it is fun to see them twist logic trying to deny BeerSmith has any issues.

The sad thing is that the whole point of this thread, how to load a Mr. Malty recipe into BeerSmith, so far hasn't been fully explained. All attempts were either incomplete, or plain wrong.

As it is you come across like the guy ranting on a street corner.

In an insane world, the sane man appears insane.

[spiderwrangler]

try to regain that tone and I can guarantee more people will listen to you.

It doesn't matter what tone you take trying to make a case for evolution with a creationist.

How about your tone turning off those who are not fully in one camp or another, that are willing to listen to what you have to say? Taking an overly dismissive tone isn't going to sway those people, it is only going to make those who already share your views nod.

[IAmRight]

How about your tone turning off those who are not fully in one camp or another, that are willing to listen to what you have to say? Taking an overly dismissive tone isn't going to sway those people, it is only going to make those who already share your views nod.

Unfortunately there really isn't any way to have a rational discussion when the other side's beliefs are based on blind faith.

The same basic thing happens every time, as it did here. There are some rational statements and evidence presented; followed by feigned interest in wanting to understand and fix the issue; progressing to barrage of rebuttals using false logic and canned sayings (like here with "crap in = crap out"); then ending with juvenile rationalizations like "My beer turns out awesome, so explain that". It plays out almost like political campaign strategists planned it.

Some will see through the logic fallacies, and investigate the issue further; others can't comprehend the issue or evidence, revert to grade school mob rule, and join in the attack.

That is about as good a result as can be expected. I had hoped BeerSmith users viewed it as simply a tool, and would be interested in knowing if it needed to be fixed, modified, or improved. Unfortunately, it appears that most, or at least a vocal few, have a much deeper attachment to it.

I am sure Brad Smith is enthralled that all discussions are derailed and dismissed. There have been threads about BeerSmith issues where he was involved, and instead of defending his position with evidence, he has let the mob beat down the dissenter with nonsensical arguments. He knows exactly what the issues are, and does not want to have to fix them. It would be a time consuming effort, since many of the issues are fundamental, and hit most of the code base.