Berliner Weisse Mystery Revealed

[Dmp]

I had an interesting talk with Scott Vaccarro at Captain Lawrence on Tues night. He doesn't do a Berliner Weisse per se, but he uses a primary lactic fermentation for all of his sour beers. He says pitch a lacto starter first, and monitor the pH. When it starts dropping heavily, then add an active yeast pitch to it. They'll finish out the fermentation and prevent it from getting overly sour. He says this gives him a nice flavor without any of the hastles of using pedio. I think he adds Brett to the secondary of most of his sour beers, but that might not be necessary for something like this.

That's an interesting approach.

I just purchased Wild Brews. I've spent the past 24 hours reading it. My mind is fried, but I have a much deeper understanding of what to do to make a sour beer. I'm just not to sure if I actually want to do it anymore

[raven19]

Give it a crack and keep your souring implements (racking hoses, taps, airlocks, fermentors) labelled and separate from your normal equipment.

Not to be feared, just respected.

(I have my lambics fermenting in the FIL's coolroom 60km away).

[Dmp]

I pitch lacto, pedio, and brett; but supplement with pure lactic acid to taste at bottling time. The natural fermentation gives complexity, and the acid brings it to where I want. I didn't know lacto liked such warm temperatures. Maybe if I fermented warmer for a while I could cut back the acid. Oh, and a little sauer malt in the mash helps with the pH. 15 minute boil here.

Thanks. I will do a blend. A lacto batch and a Golch ale yeast batch. ...Guys I know it's a bit wild, but the brew is going to be wild. I will let oak chips sit out over night and let the bugs float on them and use that to ferment one batch. For another I will use yogurt. Any suggestions on where to get good cultured yogurt for this application?

[Alchemywunderkid]

I just racked my 5 and a half week old Berliner from its bucket primary into a glass carboy for long term aging so I figure a quick report on what I did and what is happening would be fitting in this thread. I'll try to update in a few months when I bottle.

This was my first sour attempt so I kept it simple: 1.032, 5 IBU's, 60 min boil, Wyeast 3191 Berliner-Weisse Blend (no starter). I was also curious how the Wyeast blend would work on it's own.

Opening the bucket preparing to rack, I noticed a thin white pellicle from the brett in the blend. The hydrometer sample has a nice grainy taste, but is not particularly tart. There is a nice light funkiness going on which I don't quite have the pallate to identify definitively, but it seems to be more like a brett character. I'll let this sit for a spell and see what happens.

[Dmp]

I just racked my 5 and a half week old Berliner from its bucket primary into a glass carboy for long term aging so I figure a quick report on what I did and what is happening would be fitting in this thread. I'll try to update in a few months when I bottle.

This was my first sour attempt so I kept it simple: 1.032, 5 IBU's, 60 min boil, Wyeast 3191 Berliner-Weisse Blend (no starter). I was also curious how the Wyeast blend would work on it's own.

Opening the bucket preparing to rack, I noticed a thin white pellicle from the brett in the blend. The hydrometer sample has a nice grainy taste, but is not particularly tart. There is a nice light funkiness going on which I don't quite have the pallate to identify definitively, but it seems to be more like a brett character. I'll let this sit for a spell and see what happens.

Very interesting & insightful. How long before you will taste it again? I would like to learn the rate of increase in tartness compared to time, from your batch, to judge my batch.

[foomench]

Wyeast 3191 Berliner-Weisse Blend (no starter).

What?! In my day we didn't have prepared Berliner blends. We pitched all sorts of crap and did sour mashes, and we liked it! Well, my last batch got a nasty infection, so maybe not so much.

[Alchemywunderkid]

Very interesting & insightful. How long before you will taste it again? I would like to learn the rate of increase in tartness compared to time, from your batch, to judge my batch.

I would imagine I will try to pretend it doesn't exist for at least a month. According to Wyeast, it "generally requires 3-6 months of aging to fully develop flavor characteristics." I'm also a wuss when it comes to popping open fermentors more than I absolutely have to, so I doubt I'll taste it any more than monthly.

On the lactobacillus crapping out front... in Wild Brews, pH tolerance for lactobacillus is given at 3.8 while brett's is at 3.4. Is this a considerable difference given the general berliner-weisse fermentation environment? Could the beer be between those numbers at this point? Is there a chance that brett will be the only beastie working during this aging or will the lacto still play a role?

I know I don't have pH readings for these things (which would help of course) so specific answers may be impossible. However, I'm really just throwing these questions out there for anyone that might have some general insights about how the balance of the micro-organisms may change in these beers.

[foomench]

I thought some lacto would give out at 4.2, but I've heard of some going lower. I read Wild Brews, but admit it has been a little while, and that 4.2 number might have come from elsewhere.