Plan for fixing diacetyl in lager post primary fermentation

[sean.michaleen]

I brewed Tasty's Dortmunder recipe 3 weeks ago and as described on the Jamil Show, he ferments it at 55°F. I kept mine at 55°F and let it ramp up to 60°F on day 6. On day 7, I crash cooled it and put it into a keg as I needed the freezer to ferment something else. Obviously the short diacetyl rest time and the pretty high fermentation temperature resulted in a nice heaping pile of diacetyl in my Dortmunder. Whoops.

Yeah, I'm a jagg off for rushing my fermentation schedule but I came up with a plan to salvage the beer at this point in the game and I'm looking for feedback on the idea. It's been lagering for two weeks at 32°F so I'll have to warm it up to around 65°F for a couple days and let the diacetyl get reduced by yeast. Any remaining yeast in suspension probably would have thrown in the towel and I'll have to pitch fresh yeast. I just so happen to have a Saison with Wyeast 3711 in it's second day of actively fermenting so I top-cropped 200ml of yeast into a flask and I'm waiting for the lager to warm up.

Is the fresh yeast going to have much success reducing the diacetyl in my lager? Is the Saison yeast going to dry out the lager more? Is Batman going to be brought up on pederasty charges for transporting Boy Wonder across state lines? Tune in next time... err, uh, let me know what you think.

[mookie1010]

I've never done anything of the sort, but if it were me, I'd kraeusen with the same primary strain, just for consistency. Those saison strains work slow if they're not really on the warm side, no?

[brewerTristan]

Really, you are going to pitch a saison yeast in a lager?? This may clear up your diacetyl problem, but won't it contribute a shit load of Belgian character?

[mookie1010]

Really, you are going to pitch a saison yeast in a lager?? This may clear up your diacetyl problem, but won't it contribute a shit load of Belgian character?

I'm guessing that he's betting on the saison strain not imparting any flavors since primary fermentation is complete. Dunno, though - that's just what I thought originally.

[sean.michaleen]

I'm guessing that he's betting on the saison strain not imparting any flavors since primary fermentation is complete. Dunno, though - that's just what I thought originally.

That is the gist of it. I'm not thinking I'll be getting any yeast growth which is where most of the yeast's character comes out. It's more like using an ale strain to bottle condition a finished beer IMO. I also do have the WLP 833 yeast cake in the fridge, but it will require a starter to get it active again.

I've read that the Wyeast 3711 French Saison strain is much, much quicker to reach terminal gravity than the standard DuPont strain which tends to puss out towards the end.

[Mylo]

Mmmm. Buttered Belgian Dortmunder....

I mean yuck!

I think you've learned your first lesson in "the yeast don't care who you are, or what your schedule is" lager making. 1 week in the primary is way too little. "Crash cooling" is something that you do to yeast to get them to drop out - not start lagering. Lagers will test your patience if you goal is to crank them out. They are best left "forgotten", and not rushed.

As far as saving that batch? I'd try a pitch of a neutral, powerful lager yeast like WLP830. However, if it is a real butter bomb - no amount of yeast will clean it up.


Mylo

[jgourd]

I had a similar problem. I made a starter with a lager yeast (different strain that I had around) and at high krausen, pitched it in. Removed most of my diacetyl but not all. Much better beer now.

[Chunk]

Sorry for hi-jacking ....

I saw you said you have the yeast cake in your fridge. I presume its in an airtight sterile jar ... how long can you succesfully keep it like that and what are the chances that you negatively impact the flavour of the next beer you ferment with it?

Just thinking I could save money by doing this and not have to buy yeast so often. I tend to brew too far apart to be able to pitch straight onto a yeast cake having just racked off it.

Cheers.