Lactobacillus Starter for Berliner Weisse?

[MikeBrenner]

i'm working on a Berliner Weisse, and it seems everything i read is different. i got a Wyeast 5335 Lactobacillus Delbrueckii pack and made a starter. keeping it at 95 degrees on my stir plate with an electric fermentation heater. so my questions are... am i totally wrong to do this? and can i chill the lacobacillus starter to separate it like i would with a yeast starter? this is my first time using Lactobacillus and making a Berliner Weisse.

i think my plan is to split a ten gallon batch into two 5 gallon carboys and pitch one with a white labs german ale/kolsch yeast and the other with the Lactobacillus, and then mix before bottling.

thoughts?

thanks!
-mike brenner

[mediumsk]

I would just pitch the whole thing after crashing for a day or 2, the more lacto the better. a pitching rate of 5:1 lacto to sachromyces is about right.

[MikeBrenner]

thanks! i'm brewing today and the process is in motion, but i'll brew the same beer next week and try a bigger ratio like you suggested. experiment and see what happens, i guess.

[brewinhard]

Gearing up for my BW's of the season as well. Please let me know what you ended up doing and how the results were...Thanks!

[yellowthere]

That's what I'm going to do next time I make one, then you can ensure you get an appropriate amount of sourness. Normal yeast and lacto don't like each other, at least that's been my experience.

[MikeBrenner]

well... i was told that the Lactobacillus is an anaerobic bacteria. no idea why i didn't think to check. so that means feeding it with oxygen with the stir plate was definitely the wrong way to go.

i ended up splitting the batch. i did 5 gallons with White Labs WLP029 German Ale/Kolsch and 5 gallons with the Wyeast 5335 Lactobacillus Delbrueckii.

i think next i'll try a starter with oxygen for the lacto and try the Wyeast 1007 German Ale. see what that tastes like.

thanks for all the help! i appreciate it.

[brewinhard]

Lacto does NOT like oxygen. They will survive the aeration of a wort, but when making a starter, it is best not to aerate them. I wouldn't even aerate your batch wort either before pitching the lacto. And of course, once the lacto has fermented the wort for 48 hrs. or so, DON'T aerate the wort before adding your neutral ale yeast. This obviously could lead to oxidation in the finished product. I plan on making two of these this spring with two different methods.

Mike,

please post when you get your results with the sourness of the finished product using your lacto starter method.

[hbPinty]

once the lacto has fermented the wort for 48 hrs. or so, DON'T aerate the wort before adding your neutral ale yeast. This obviously could lead to oxidation in the finished product.

Why would this lead to oxidation? It seems to me that the ale yeast would clean up all of the oxygen in the lag phase, same as if you had aerated and pitched the ale yeast on day 1. Also, wouldn't aerating give a faster and cleaner ferment by the yeast?

I'm making my first berliner this weekend with the same steps that you said, except I was planning to aerate before pitching the yeast, so the no-aeration idea caught my attention