question on my Kolsch starter

[nathanm]

So I made a pretty big starter for my pseudo-lager kolsch-oktoberfest. I let it ferment out and then the day before I brewed (last night) I add another Liter of starter wort. The yeast went crazy but by the time I actually pitched (this morning), the stater was not at "high krausen" which is what seems necessary.

What should I expect from the fermentation if I didn't pitch at high krausen? I pitched at 60F and am fermenting it at 58. Aerated well, used yeast nutrient in both the starter and in the boil of the batch.

[BlueLoon]

I'm pretty sure it just has to be active. So if you shake it and you get off gassing its active. I just brewed a Kolsch a week ago and my starter never produced a krausen but every time I shook it there was lots of off gassing. So I know the yeast were making CO2. I pitched it and the next day I had foam shooting out the air lock. Switched to blow off and it went nutts for a couple days. Even at 59-60F.

[brewinhard]

Depending on the size of your starter (sound good esp. if you decanted and added a second liter) you should have no problems. Don't be too alarmed if the yeast take a bit of time to get going at those cool temps. Did you cool the starter down to your wort temp or pitch a warm starter into cool wort? I have found it is best to pitch a cooler starter into a warmer wort (not too warm of course). I rarely pitch my starters at high krausen and have never had any problems with fermentation. I am sure it will be fine. Keep us posted!

[BDawg]

What exactly do you mean by Kolsch-Okto?
(do you mean you are using Kolsch yeast and cool fermenting it?)
Or are you doing some kind of cross between a Kolsch and Okto grain bill too?

Just trying to understand things here...

[nathanm]

What exactly do you mean by Kolsch-Okto?

I mean that I had an Oktoberfest grain bill and am now fermenting it at 59F with Wyeast Kolsch 2565.

Don't be too alarmed if the yeast take a bit of time to get going at those cool temps.

That makes me feel good. It has been about 12 hours and there is nothing happening, not that 12 hours is unusual in any case, but i'm preparing myself for a longer delay/lag time at 59F. Thanks. I pitched the yeast at the same temp as the wort - they were both 60F (yeast maybe at 61-62F). Yeah, i've never pitched at high krausen either, but was reading some posts on brewing kolsch beers and heard Jamil Z say (on the kolsch show) that you should time your brew to pitch at high Krausen.

One question - I made the starter at room temps just like any other Ale starter, then cooled it to ferm temps. Is there a difference say, between kolsch or lager yeast made from a room temp starter and yeast that were made during fermentation at 60 or lager ferm temps? For example, say i was doing a lager and I could produce the same number of yeast with a starter at room temp or a repitch of yeast from a previous batch.
I know 3-4th generation yeast make better beer but i'm thinking just in terms of the temp at which the yeast reproduce themselves. Is there a qualitative difference? Is it possible or advisable for some reason to make the stater at fermentation temps?

Forgive me for thinking out loud here. Maybe it is time i pick up a book on yeast and fermentation.

I will indeed keep you posted on how my pseudo-lager oktoberfest turns out, when it is done just in time for Thanksgiving/Christmas!

[brewinhard]

From my understanding, any ale yeast starter should be fermented low 70's while a lager yeast starter could be done a little cooler like say 65-68 degrees. Your goal of a starter is of course to grow more yeast and make them active. There is definitely a lot to read on yeast and fermentation process out there. that is the fun of the hobby! Research and make your brain larger!