German Lager Yeast: Is dry "really" bad?

[Jimbo]

I make 10 gal batches... I go to JZ's PRC http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html and for a 1.048 lager, I need 674 billion yeast cells. (ARGHH - how am I gonna get there!?!?)

• Simple Starter with 3 vials and a 7.4 liter starter, Hmm - LHBS is $8.95/vial
• Stir Plate (yep, got one) with 3 vials and a 2.79 liter starter
• Dry Yeast - Saflager W-34/70 - 2.9 packs @ $3.25/package

What I've learned about the 3 yeasts listed in the poll is that they are all the same yeast. http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm That being the case, what is the downside to using the Saflager W-34/70? It would seem that I can get the correct pitching rate without having to jump though any hoops (starters, re-pitching, etc)

"... the lure of dry yeast is strong" http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php#C

Yes, it is indeed!

Thoughts?

[brewinhard]

Have not used the Saflager W-34/70, but have used the S-23 Saflager for a Bohemian Pilsner. The problem I encountered when using any dry yeast for lagers is that when I rehydrated the yeast it is best done at warm temps. But then you pitch that into a cool wort (@50 degrees). When I did this I saw a 48 hr. lag time at 50 degrees. I don't like that long of a lag time. Never the less, the beer came out good, but I learned one thing. I will never again use dry yeast to make a lager. The liquid yeast ferments quicker and better. Worried about building enough yeast cells? I will usually just make a 3 liter starter with 1040 gravity and pitch just the chilled slurry into a small gravity lager. Then use the yeast from primary for subsequent batches.

Anywhewwww.... long story short, I would go with the liquid. But please let me know how the dry W-34/70 works out if you so choose that route. BTW, my buddy tried rehydrating the S-23 at 55-60 degrees so as not to shock them so much. He too saw 48 hr. lag time....
Don't get me wrong either, I still love my US-O5 and S-04 fermentis dry yeasts!

[Jimbo]

Thanks for your history!

+1 on the US-04/US-05 yeasts

I suppose I'm somewhat used to my lagers "showing" in-significant signs of initial fermentation. I'd say that I "normally" see some form of fermentation starting around 24 hours or so - something like a "light" or "islands" of yeast on the surface of the fermenter. However, I also don't expect a US-05/04 type of acivity in the first 24/48 hours or so. I also make sure to aereate with O2 and also use Wyeast's Yeast Nutrient. I find that I ususally get a 75+ attenuation on that yeast.

Jimbo

[BrewerJ]

I have used 830 several times and the wyeast version once. I like 830 a nudge better in the two liquid versions. I have also used 34/70 several times when I worked at a brewpub. The biggest diifference that I noticed between the dry and the liquid versions was the amount of sulfur production. The dry had a lot more sulfur character but still made a descent beer.

[Brandon]

S-189 is a great Dry Lager yeast

[Chupa LaHomebrew]

BrewerJ,
Did the extra sulfur character you noticed blow off during fermentation, or was there noticeable sulfur in the finished beer?

I'm too lazy to find the link, but somewhere on Probrewer.com are some pretty detailed directions on using the dry lager yeast. I'd check that out too.

[BrewerJ]

It was in the finished beer. You can probably reduce it by fermenting longer and letting the beer gas off more. At the brewpub I worked at we didn't have time to let beer sit in the fermenters. When it was done it was moved, so you could say that the lagers are rushed. However I do think 34/70 can make a nice beer and probably better than what I experienced at the pub.

[Quin]

I like the Wyeast version just because you know the yeast is active after the pack swells. I just brewed a 12 gallon batch of 13°P Octoberfest and pitched slurry from a 2 gal starter w/two vials on a stir plate.

On the PRC, there is a slider bar that you can move back and forth to get more/less vials and a smaller/larger starter volume.