Roselare?????

[HopRunner]

Hoprunner,

How are your Flanders coming along? Do you have a pellicle formed yet? I have a thin crusty/flakey brett pellicle on my strong flanders brown, but my red only shows minimal (if any) pellicle. I am thinking neither have a huge pellicle because I racked while there was still active fermentation to push out any oxygen that would cause the pellicle to form. I am not worried too much as these beers have a long time to go. I have also read/heard that not all will form pellicles. I have heard reports that some people who have brewed these before actually prefer the characteristics of ones that did not form pellicles. Really looking forward to tasting these in about 1 year as I plan to let them go about 18 mos or so to be sure they are good and sour. Meanwhile I will get my funk fix brewing brett beers!

Well, here take a look. This is my stash of funked-up brews. The one that has the most pellicle on the top is in a green carboy. I don't think the mold is actually green.



The "Kriek" in the 3G in the corner is actually a hodge-podge of under hopped brown ales that I added White Labs Sour Blend and Flanders Red dregs and also two cans of Oregon Brand sour cherries. I have no idea what that will turn out like. That is why I'm calling it Chaos Kriek. I tasted it last month and all I got was major Horse Blanket, no sour yet. I'll try it again in December.

The Flanders Red and the Flanders Brown are straight Roeselare and straight out of BCS. The "Brown" Lambic is my Nut-Brown ale recipe with 2 changes. I used three pounds of unmalted wheat in the mash in place of three pounds of British 2-row and I used 2 oz of well ages saaz hops in a two hour boil. I didn't actually mean to let is sit in the primary so long before transferring to secondary but life go in the way. This is also the only one that I didn't add two ounces of medium toast French oak cubes to. I figured I'd keep on of the batches unoaked for blending.

As for the vinegar. I think that if you have done a good job of keeping the O2 out you can let them sit in the carboy for (almost) ever without a problem.

[brewinhard]

Yours look about where mine are right now at 5-6 mos in. My one lambic is getting pretty funky but that one was with the WY lambic blend. I just ordered some WLP Belgian sour mix. How does the sour mix compare to the Roselare? Any preference or are you still waiting for the results? Yeah, I am not too worried about acetic character overtaking the beer as there is not (if any) much oxygen in the carboy. My understanding is if there was a lot of oxygen then there would probably be more of a pellicle than what I have in mine. I have about 4 sours going right now, and I think I will just keg them one at a time while the others still get even more funky. I won't even taste them until about 1 year. Meanwhile, I'll just have to make some more I guess. Ohhhh, the tough life of a homebrewer!

[HopRunner]

OK, so here is a trippy update. File this one under "Not Following the Rules".

When I transferred the (I'm sure inappropriately named) Brown Lambic from the 6G primary to the 5G secondary I had about a liter left over. I put the extra in one of those 1 Liter EZ Cap bottles and put it on the top shelf in the kitchen. It sat up there for about a month. I then opened the top and dropped two boiled cubes of Medium Toast French oak cubes in the top and capped it back up. No carbonation at this point, at least there wasn't any pffsst when I opened the top. It sat for another week and then I put the bottle in a bucked of warm water and added a fish tank heater turned up to 86F. It sat in the bucket for a full seven days. Sunday morning before my brewing session began I put the bottle in the fridge.

About four hours later my brewing buddy and I had our kettles boiling and decided to try the "Lambic". It was very good. I shit you not, we sucked that bitch down. I am NOT saying it was an actual Lambic. All I'm saying is that for a brown soured beer it was mighty tasty. It didn't have the fully developed sour character of a seasoned sour but it was mighty drinkable. It was about as sour as a flanders brown. There was still the malty background and beerness to the overall flavor because the bacteria didn't have time to completely consume everything. I think the one week at 86 kicked in the bacteria and also added some CO2 because the beer was carbonated at this point.

Anyway.... do what you want with this information.

[PhillyBrewer]

I have two quick questions about Roeselare which I'm intending to use in a Flanders Red this Sunday.

1. Do you need to regulate primary ferm temps like a normal ale ie. mid to high 60s?
2. JZ suggests a rubber carboy cap/hood on a glass carboy when fermenting Flanders Reds. In the pics in this thread, I see a rubber bung was used. Do they both let in about the same amount of O2?

[brewinhard]

Fermentation 65-70 degrees is sufficient. This beer will be aging a long time. Just avoid fusel alcohol production.

As for the stopper controversy, I have some carboys with caps/airlocks and others going with stopper/airlock. The ones that have caps have thicker pellicles (and are younger). Obviously there are other variables, and I actually believe that those rubber stoppers allow for more gas exchange than caps, but go figure! I have a flanders pale, red, brown all going that are over a year (without even a single taste). They all have nice pellicles (not super thick) and I am probably going to let them go the rest of the summer to make use of the warmer temps to kick up the bacteria/brett production.

[JimL]

As for the stopper controversy, I have some carboys with caps/airlocks and others going with stopper/airlock. The ones that have caps have thicker pellicles (and are younger).

I'm brewing Jamil's version from the podcast, not BCS, this Friday. On my non-sour beers I always use a hose clamp on the orange carboy caps so I can consistantly gauge activity (really just CO2 output). I want to have some oxygen absorbsion in my Flanders Red but am wondering if I should just throw on the carboy cap and airlock without the hose clamp. Seems like the answer is yes.

Also, I picked up a 3-month old smack pack of Roeselare from my LHBS last week. Based on Mr. Malty, I need 2 packs of this yeast from this date and a 5.15L starter. I just made a 5.5L starter with one smack pack and plan to decant the spent wort and pitch this into my two carboys. Would I be underpitching for this style or are sour beers exempt from underpitching since they have bugs, etc?

[brewinhard]

Typically, a starter should not be made with this yeast blend b/c it will offset the populations of the wild yeast and bacteria. If you are worried about pitching this blend into the primary, then you could always mash high (158 degrees), ferment for 7 days with a neutral yeast and pitch the blend into secondary for the long wait. Underpitching is not a huge deal with these styles of beer simply b/c they will be fermenting for sooooo long that the critters will eventually lower the pH of the beer and outcompete any other nasties introduced. If you do decide to pitch the blend into the primary, just be patient as it may take a few days to get going, but it will. If you are concerned, pitch a small portion of US-O5 packet to get fermentation underway.
Too much oxygen ingress during the long aging could result in growth of acetobacter which is responsible for producing acetic acid and too much acetic acid can make the beer overly vinegar-like which can be too overpowering, even in this style.

[PhillyBrewer]

brewinhard: you're a wealth of information about sour beer ferm. I plan on pitching Roeselare directly into the primary. Is there a need to oxygenate the wort before pitching?