mr malty pitching rate calculator confusion

Fri May 28, 2010 11:45 am

I have a question on the brewing calc. I am using a stir plate for 5 gallons of 1.052 wort. Using the calc I noticed it is saying to use 1 pack in 1 liter of wort for 182 billion cells...ok. The issue is that if I put a range of SG's, I get the same info...example

1.029 beer 1 liter starter, 1 pack yeast = 103 billion cells
1.066 beer 1 liter starter, 1 pack yeast = 228 billion cells

Am I using this right? I dont want to over/under pitch, but this seems like a huge range...difference of 122 billion cells, the amount of another full smack pack. Not sure what I'm doing wrong... Pease help, thanks
jakeotr
 
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Re: mr malty pitching rate calculator confusion

Fri May 28, 2010 10:25 pm

Yeah --- kind of weird - I also was getting funky results like it wasn't calculating or something. I forced a page reload a couple of times and it finally started working. Or try a different browser
Old_Skool
 
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Re: mr malty pitching rate calculator confusion

Sat May 29, 2010 2:05 am

i think this may be because fractions of a yeast pack aren't used in the calculations, for example, if a beer needed 1.4 packs, the program might be rounding off because but its just not feasible to calculate for fractions of a yeast packs/vials. The cell count should be right on the money.

Rob
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robert4136
 
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Re: mr malty pitching rate calculator confusion

Sat May 29, 2010 8:27 am

I used Jamil's formulas for pitching in my web pitching rate calculator. As the yest packages average about 100 billion cells and range from 70 - 140 (according to Jamil), I picked (very unscientifically):
0 - 149(billion cells) to recommend one package
150 - 249 for two packages
250 - 349 for three packages
4 more more for over 350.

Jamil has a much more scientific scale. Where I chose to keep it simple, Jamil's calculator is very detailed and gives some excellent fine grain control. I found his calculator a bit daunting and confusing to start with but read the help and played with it a bit and eventuallt got it. My tool was intended for those who want something simple.

I tested your scenario on Jamil's calculator and based on using a stir plate, you will achieve the highest growth rate and therefor a single package. Jamil's book advises cell count will double in a starter, 1 package in a 2 liter starter will double to between 140 and 300 billion. 1 package in 1 liter would give around 50% increase and more using a stir plate. I believe Jamil calculates a single package with a 1 liter starter on a stir plate is good for up to 230 billion cells. After that, the starter size will need to be increased.

- Joe a.k.a. Jomebrew
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jomebrew
 
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Re: mr malty pitching rate calculator confusion

Sat May 29, 2010 8:31 am

Here is a video I found that might help clear up some confusion.

http://billybrew.com/yeast-starter-size
knowitman
 
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Re: mr malty pitching rate calculator confusion

Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:13 am

The problem is that the smallest size starter that the calculator will recommend is 1L. This minimum size is based on Jamil's supposed experiments that showed anything smaller 'wasn't worth it', although I'd love to see some published data behind this to make that call myself (maybe in the yeast book?). Anyway, if you make a 1L starter with a stir plate and a fresh yeast pack, it will grow 130 billion new cells and you'll have 230 billion to pitch. So if you want to get closer to the actual recommended pitching rate of 750 million/mL/°P, you can pour off a portion of the fermented starter before pitching. I'm betting that most people just pitch the whole thing though.

An alternate method for low gravity beers is to make a small, 1 pint starter the morning of brew day and pitch the yeast into that, being sure to hold it at the same temperature as you intend to pitch. As soon as you see a small krausen (or at the latest 8 hours after chilling) pitch the whole thing into the fermenter. You don't want this small starter to ferment out completely because it's not enough to get significant new cell growth and can actually diminish glycogen reserves, but it does work well in waking the yeast up. This works well when pitching into worts that require near 100 billion cells. You can also use this method for higher gravity worts provided you grow enough yeast for the pitch prior to making the small starter, don't rely on the small starter to grow enough yeast for the batch.

If you have a package that has a little less than 100 billion cells, it's ok to make a starter smaller than 1L, just try to keep the ratio the same (1L per 100 billion cells). The amount grown will be the same per liter of starter wort. For example, if you have a pack that is 80% viable and you make an 800 mL starter, the amount of new growth will be 133 billion/L * 0.8 L = 106 billion, for a total of 186 billion.
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Nyakavt
 
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Re: mr malty pitching rate calculator confusion

Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:30 pm

I have always heard that a 2L starter will approximately double growth so I don't see how a 1L starter will give you an extra 130 billion cells if a 2L will only give you an extra 100 billion.
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11amas
 
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Re: mr malty pitching rate calculator confusion

Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:51 pm

I love JZ's pitching calculator. The one thing I would like to see change is the yeast calculation for a slurry.
(ie) 120 ML of yeast washed 1 hour ago is different that 120 ML of washed yeast @ 24 hours. I like to see the tool handle that.
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