stressed yeast?

Thu May 14, 2009 4:36 am

I have saved the yeast cake from a 8.2% abv batch. Should I not use this yeast for a lower % batch because it is stressed? What will happen if I do use it? The next batch I do will be a Rauchbier at 5% (the first was a Rauchbier 8.2%)
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imacoming
 
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Re: stressed yeast?

Thu May 14, 2009 7:12 am

I've often wondered how a single cell organism becomes stressed. I mean, the only thing they have to worry about is eating, pissing and farting.
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Re: stressed yeast?

Thu May 14, 2009 2:14 pm

Mr. Malty should probably get on here to answer this question, but I'll give it a shot. Basically alcohol is toxic to yeast. Actually it is toxic to us too. At moderate levels both yeast and us can tolerate it with few bad effects. At higher levels, both become stressed. Ever try to function with the hangover from Hell? Hungover yeast doesn't do well either. Yeast from an 8.2% beer will not just be hungover (is that possible?) it will actually have cell damage. Some of the cells will be dead. Many will be damaged to the extent that they won't reproduce well, give off funky esters, or even mutate to the point of having entirely different characteristics from what you started with. A few will come through with no damage at all.

In general, you don't want to reuse a yeast from a beer that had an OG higher than 1.060. I start to feel uneasy reusing yeast that had been in a beer over 1.055. On the other hand, you will find folks that had what they thought were satisfactory results from reusing a yeast from a barleywine. You just need to use your own judgement and consider how much you want to risk it.

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Re: stressed yeast?

Fri May 15, 2009 3:53 am

Bugeater wrote: Ever try to function with the hangover from Hell? Hungover yeast doesn't do well either.
Wayne


Well, that makes more sense. I never considered damage from alcohol toxicity. Thanks!
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Re: stressed yeast?

Fri May 15, 2009 8:44 pm

Bugeater wrote:In general, you don't want to reuse a yeast from a beer that had an OG higher than 1.060. I start to feel uneasy reusing yeast that had been in a beer over 1.055. On the other hand, you will find folks that had what they thought were satisfactory results from reusing a yeast from a barleywine. You just need to use your own judgement and consider how much you want to risk it.

Wayne


Not trying to argue, but this is mainly a theoretical position; I've not found that to play out in practice. I repitch from beers over 1.060 all the time with great success, as do many commercial brewers. The general rule is to pitch up and/or across. Examples: Pale ale to pale ale. IPA to double IPA. Amber ale to equal or higher gravity stout. Pilsner to maibock to dopplebock. You get the idea. Also, the resilience of each yeast strain is different. Cal ale is particularly hearty and I've found it gets stronger with each repitch (to a point). In fact, my b-wines and RISs tend to finish out fastest and with a hearty degree of attenuation when I repitch from my regular IPA, which is 7.3% and over 120 (theoretical) IBUs. Many craft brewers will give their yeast 5-6 generations before replacing them. I'm usually done with them by the 4th gen at the most.

That said, I would not repitch from anything that was on the "imperial" side of things malt-wise or hop-wise. The problem with pitching down (as proposed) is that it may result in an overpitch or giving the yeast an easy meal that won't shift them into the proper metabolic gears, resulting in reduced ester formation and possibly other positive biproducts that result from "upward" growth. What does that mean? Potentially a beer with a somewhat flat or lifeless flavor profile.
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SacoDeToro
 
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Re: stressed yeast?

Sun May 17, 2009 6:06 am

Actually I agree with you. In theory, what I presented can happen and is the basis for my personal preferences for repitching practice. Yeast health is one area where I don't like to push the limits.

In practice, you can often repitch from batches higher than 1.060, and I have done it successfully several times. I have had issues in the past with underattenuated beers. I have solved that problem with some basic recipe and process changes. Yeast health is one of those issues that can contribute to the problem, so I stay on the conservative side on the repitching issue.

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Re: stressed yeast?

Mon May 18, 2009 6:38 am

Great info. I am going from a cream lager (yup, by mistake I pitched lager yeast instead of ale yeast ) to a Rauchbier (nice and smokey). So, I guess it should be ok. Hell, I have not brewed a batch that I could not drink.
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