Star San help

[Brewing_In_MKE]

I use star san, and I don't fear the foam. However I was listening to the Brew Strong cleaning eppisode with John from 5 Star Chemicals. He said that if star san is cloudy it is not effective. When I use my city water (City of Milwaukee Water Works) the solution turns cloudy immediately. Should I be buying de-ionized water from the grocery store in lieu of the city water? Have I been using defective sanitizing solution since it is cloudy?

[DannyW]

Yes, and yes (I think). My water is similar to yours so I buy 5 gallons of reverse osmosis water to make a keg full of star san at a time. It lasts for months that way.

I think pH is the acid test (har har!) of effectiveness with Star San, but if it goes cloudy the acids in the star san have likely been used up turning the carbonate in your water to soap. Or something like that (lots of hand waving here).

[Bugeater]

I have extremely high carbonate water here and star san turns cloudy immediately if I try using it. I now always use RO water to mix star san and it stays good for months (or would if I didn't use it up so fast). I keep a corny keg full of the stuff. I hit it with a couple pounds pressure now and then so I can just use a picnic tap to dispense a little sanitizer now and then. I also use CO2 to push it from keg to keg to sanitize and purge them.

Wayne

[ZZ]

I believe you're supposed to use 2 gallons of Star San per 5 gallon batch. At least that's what J does...

[Stewbacca]

I believe you're supposed to use 2 gallons of Star San per 5 gallon batch. At least that's what J does...

You forgot the most important step, dump on carpet and pick it back up with a wet vac before putting into keg...

[CoreySmith]

I need to listen to that episode, so take this with a grain of salt.

After many years of chemistry, here is my take. The low pH of StarSan will precipitate calcium bicarbonate (or other bicarbonates) out of the water. If you have hard water you will notice that new StarSan gets cloudy right away. But if you leave it for a few weeks, that will settle out. Basically it is just gravity acting like a really slow centrifuge. As it settles out I just decant the clear StarSan off the precipitate and replenish the volume after I lose a significant amount. It is just a pH-dependent way of softening the water and happens with bicarb at low pH.

I personally go by pH. In his Session interview, as well as through a few personal emails (he is really good about answering) Jon said that as long as the pH is 3 or below, StarSan is effective. I measure the pH every time and don't worry about the cloudy precipitate. I have not had an infection ever in my days using StarSan (3+ years and over 200 batches).

Now, with that said, I will go listen to the interview and see if I am just a total buffoon that has been really lucky.

[Andy]

In an interview on Basic Brewing Radio John Talley the head of Five Star Chemical, the makers of StarSan, recommended adding 1 tablespoon of vinegar to 5gal water in order to get the pH down to where a subsequent addition of 1 tablespoon of bleach could be an extremely effective sanitizer that is both no rinse and far, far below the chlorine taste threshold. He stressed the point that although you should never mix the bleach and vinegar directly with each other (or you will create a deadly chlorine gas), it is perfectly safe to add them to larger amounts of water in two separate additions.

The tech sheet on StarSan recommends the same basic procedure to reduce pH if you experience cloudiness when using StarSan instead of bleach...add an acid or more StarSan (which already contains an acid) to bring the pH down to about 3, maintain proper sanitizing levels, and get rid of the cloudiness. The tech sheet specifies HCl but a tablespoon of vinegar per 5 gallons batch should do the same job as per John Talley. You can adjust the amount of vinegar down to meet your batch size. Hope that helps a little!

StarSan Tech Sheet
http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/tech/starsan.pdf

Here is a link to the interview .mp3

http://cdn4.libsyn.com/basicbrewing/bbr ... e199cca7a7

[CoreySmith]

In his Session interview, as well as through a few personal emails (he is really good about answering) Jon said that as long as the pH is 3 or below, StarSan is effective.

In an interview on Basic Brewing Radio John Talley the head of Five Star Chemical, the makers of StarSan,

Actually, I think I am thinking of his BBR interview too. That was a really good one. Thanks for the correction.